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Comment by toomuchtodo | Hacker News Reader

Some people do. Some people with a stay at home parent homeschool. I don’t want my kids going to subpar public schools, so would rather have their education happen at home, which allows us to live anywhere with my remote job.

A counter point to your central schooling argument is Chicago Public Schools, which are terrible.

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The 5 best high schools in Illinois are CPS schools [1]. The grade schools are hit and miss by neighborhood. There are great public magnet options if you can test-in or win a lottery.

That’s not to say the system is great, but there is a lot more nuance than just declaring them “terrible”. Unless me or my spouse is a trained educator, I will trust the experts. Just like I do when I need medical, electrical or plumbing work done.

[1] https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/illinois

I can do better on my own, my two cents, have to do what’s best for you. We sold our place in Cook County because the cost to benefit wasn’t there and property taxes will only rise (Chicago is almost $90 billion in debt per Moody’s, that’s $84k per household) while education keeps getting cut [1]. That’s a big gamble on top of your data about grade schools and magnet schools (my kids won't be in high school for more than half a decade).

I’m having a coffee watching the sunrise over Appalachia while some poor sap is dragging themselves to the Blue line. I’m not the best teacher, but life is about trade offs.

[1] https://www.google.com/search?q=cps+budget+cuts

You came off that “terrible schools” comment pretty quick. If you’re already going to home school it makes sense to keep taxes lower. But like I said, I’ll trust the experts who went to school and have ongoing training to educate my kids. That way I can focus on being a parent.

The way you jump between Cook County and Chicago is also a strange way to measure things. You can live in Cook County and not be in Chicago proper. Cook County has places like Evanston, Hinsdale, Kenilworth, Glenview, and Oak Park with some of the best schools in the country.

I might have parsed it in my head differently, allow me to expound.

I said, "CPS is terrible". You said that grade schools are hit or miss, but 5 of the top high schools in Illinois are in CPS, and that there are always magnet schools that require a lottery. In my mind, if you can't offer consistent quality across your territory (Chicago proper) and grade levels (K-12), you are a subpar institution, ie "terrible". There are pockets of success (the high schools you mention, and the luck of my kids getting into a magnet school) but one should not rely on luck for something as critical as their child's education.

I bring up the dollars involved (cook county, property taxes, Chicago debt) because that is the fuel for the education engine, and that fuel is running out (pension obligations are protected by the Illinois constitution, education is not). Therefore, it is very likely the education experience in Chicago continues to decline. If it's already bad today (which it is objectively is, based on our subthread discussion and how weighted luck is as a component of your child's experience and success), why would one double down on it (accept fate and put your kids into CPS) while also being financially exposed and locked into the structural decline?

Blindly trusting experts is a recipe for disaster. Experts don't always have your individual interests at heart. As an individual, it is your job to optimize for you and your family. I hope this clarifies my admittedly poorly constructed thesis further up the thread. I'm off to make more coffee.

==it is very likely the education experience in Chicago continues to decline.==

This is the imbedded assumption you are working with. All indications are that the system has significantly improved over the past 10 years [1]. The state also passed a significant education bill that directs more money to the district (not less, as you imply) [2]. It’s well-known that schools are neighborhood-by-neighborhood asset in Chicago. Thats part of the calculus of moving.

Nobody is “blindly trusting” anyone, not sure why you assumed that.

[1] https://www.usnews.com/news/the-report/articles/2018-04-13/t...

[2] https://www.chicagotribune.com/politics/ct-illinois-house-sc...

> I’ll trust the experts who went to school and have ongoing training to educate my kids. That way I can focus on being a parent.

Your duty as a parent is to educate your children. Why the hell would I trust the government to not indoctrinate my children?

It is truly sad that many parents wash their hands of raising their children by passing them off to the government to be educated.

Almost as sad as passive aggressive internet comments. The implication that you are only a true parent if you home school or send to private school is laughable.

Do you grow all of the food your child eats? It’s truly sad how many parents wash their hands of raising their children by feeding them something someone else grew or made.

Do you diagnose your children’s illnesses? It’s truly sad how many parents wash their hands of raising their children by passing them off to some stranger to be healed.

Do you teach your children to call the police or fire? It’s truly sad how many parents wash their hands of raising their children by passing them off to police and fire in emergencies.

> The implication that you are only a true parent if you home school or send to private school is laughable.

I did not say this nor did I imply it. Of course there are situations in which the parents are unable to homeschool. This does not make them any worse a parent. Even if you do homeschool, it's not uncommon to take some external classes as you get into the higher grades. I'm also not saying the that the parents need to write the math books they use, nor do they need to grow all food. But they certainly should feed their children with the food bought at the store. School is used to much as a day care and catch all. If it was more of a couple hours hours a week learning only math at school and at home parents actually took the time to teach virtue and discipline it would better.

Is the person homeschooling your child more of a subject matter expert in all of the areas that the public school teaches? Many parents have found out first hand that they either didn’t know what they were doing or weren’t patient enough to teach their own kids.

Nope. We learn the material over (having been out of school for at least two decades) from the home school material, and then teach it.

If you don’t have patience, but also can’t afford private education of some sort and have to resort to broken public institutions, there's not much hope (imho). Patience is cheap (comparatively speaking).

I've learned how to weld, sail, wrench on diesel engines and my Teslas, perform wilderness EMT procedures, woodwork, and build houses/perform large scale home improvement on my own. K-12 is a cake walk. Don't doubt your vibe, you're a fellow human and you can do it too.

I found one of the most important parts of K-12 is just learning to interact with people your own age + being able to work with people effectively.

Are you concerned about this? Or do you have a way to effectively replace this?

We still socialize the kids outside of the house with playdates. Very important. Good point.

There are often group projects especially in high school. Play dates don’t teach how to work as a team.

Even in elementary school it’s an important lesson to learn that you’re not a special snowflake and you don’t get all of the attention of superiors (teachers) to yourself.

>subject matter expert

I think you're overestimating the amount of background knowledge the average tech worker might need to make up to teach elementary and high school subjects from text books.

People TA entire college classes with the same amount (0) of experience.

I took plenty of math classes in high school and college over two decades ago. I look at the average Trig problem and I didn’t know where to start helping my son. I ended up FaceTiming my mom who is a retired high school math teacher. I also have an aunt - a retired high school science teacher - I could call. But how many people have those resources at their beckon call?

>I look at the average Trig problem and I didn’t know where to start helping my son.

Did you try reading the text book? It's made for children. It's high school math. I cannot understand this mindset but I fear it is extremely common and our society is in trouble for it.

Yes we are in trouble because we have this thing called specialization of labor. I learned how to develop software so I could live in the big house in the burbs with the good school system and took advantage of knowing the right people with the right set of skills to help me in other areas. I also shockingly don’t cut my own grass, do my own plumbing or fix my own cars.

>I also shockingly don’t cut my own grass, do my own plumbing or fix my own cars.

I do, and you should too. These things are not difficult to learn. Moreover they are good full body workouts and, speaking from experience with my father, can be excellent bonding experiences.

But that's beside the point. You're relying far too much on others if you've lost the ability to spend 5-20 minutes reading one chapter in a children's textbook for a chance to educate and bond with your child.

If you can learn a new programming language or framework without someone holding your hand, you can do this basic stuff. I think people either underestimate themselves or they're willing to go to great lengths to justify their laziness.

I do, and you should too. These things are not difficult to learn. Moreover they are good full body workouts and, speaking from experience with my father, can be excellent bonding experiences

I’m sure there are dozens of things we pay for everyday that are not too difficult to learn. In business, you choose between your core competencies and what is best to outsource - your typical build vs buy decisions. Even while developing you choose when to use third party frameworks and what to build yourself.

I’m not in Silicon Valley I am just in big city USA so I am in no way bragging. But by specializing in software development, that affords me the big house in the burbs, that also allows me to pay other people to cut my grass while I exercise in the comfort of my fully equipped home gym in the air conditioning.

* If you can learn a new programming language or framework without someone holding your hand, you can do this basic stuff. I think people either underestimate themselves or they're willing to go to great lengths to justify their laziness.*

I learned it the first time 20+ years ago, I have no doubt that I could relearn it - especially with the help - but everyone chooses how to optimize their time? Is my time spent better learning trig or doing something that can make me more money so I can cash flow his way through college?

>I learned it the first time 20+ years ago, I have no doubt that I could relearn it - especially with the help - but everyone chooses how to optimize their time? Is my time spent better learning trig or doing something that can make me more money so I can cash flow his way through college?

We're talking about a pandemic where some degree of homeschooling has become mandatory. I'm just pointing out that the difficulty is minimal when it's a question of educating your kids. Our specializations are irrelevant.

The rest, which is a different subject, just boils down to our difference preferences - I prefer to spend my spare time practicing practical skills and I think society would be far better off if other people did too. Even fixing cars gives your mind a technical workout that translates to other domains.

Even fixing cars gives your mind a technical workout that translates to other domains.

Or I could spend the time improving in the technical domain directly by bringing my laptop to the service department instead of fixing a car where they have people who can do it faster with better equipment and somehow hope that it will make me a better developer, team lead, overpriced consultant or whatever rabbit I’m chasing at the time.

I’m sure the farmer would also look in disdain because you don’t grow your own food and instead go the grocery store.

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