Google's top quantum scientist explains why he resigned
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The problem is that solving these sorts of hard problems require both leaders and workers. In this case, and many others, there is not an educational path for training people to be technicians with equivalent knowledge as a PhD (which is why they poached an academic lab to do this). Moreover, if there was a path, history has shown that the people that accept the follower role (rather than wanting intellectual leadership) are highly dispensable. (See, e.g., the optics industry moving laser fab to Malaysia.)
It's also a problem in medicine - physicians resist loss of diagnostic or treatment control. Though in medicine, there are NPs and PAs, but they're generally treated with much less respect.
I think it's interesting that he talks about how "he" Martinis was doing the wiring. Was he? I suspect he had a team working very hard with substantial responsibility, but...
That's not limited to academia. In the industry (and even outside of tech) people who will have a sufficient understanding of how something works will at some point in time no longer purely want to follow orders, but want to drive things and innovate on their own.
In this situations both sides - the current leaders and someone who wants more responsibility - need make some compromises in order to try to accomodate this interests.
It's not that unusual to see a founder get excluded even if that person was arguably the primary driver, the deteriorating relations don't allow the situation to continue and the alternative is blowing up the organization.
...to the degree that you can do that without getting fired.
It's always easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. Trying to convince a bureaucracy of anything is futile.
Some people can. Some people cant. There are no general rules that work for everyone.
It would be a pretty good deal if I enjoyed golf as much as I enjoy writing Lisp code.
I appreciate what Java was meant to be (a way to drag C/C++ programmers closer to Lisp) and I would say that's a goal that has been achieved. I just wish it were easier to go the rest of the way.
I've heard theories that lisp teams don't scale well because the language is so customisable that team members have trouble reading each other's code.
But yes, managing Lispers can be a challenge. That's one of the reasons Java is used so much more.
Credits to the clairvoyance of JoeAltmeier for the kind correction!
I mean, it's great that they've made a few official integration libraries, but if all the docs assume you're using one of them then the docs leave out crucial information about how to work with their systems for everyone else.
I suspect the information is all there somewhere but at least since SCA, it's buried. At least for me, the dev experience using Stripe has deteriorated quite a bit in the past 2 years.
It's worthy of a whole blog post, though, so I'll share it that way.
My experience going through the payment intents was that sending POSTs exactly as described was an immediate error for not sending a version in the request header. Nowhere in the doc was this requirement mentioned: https://stripe.com/docs/payments/accept-a-payment
The problem is step 1: "Use our official libraries for access to the Stripe API from your application"
Similarly the link on this page regarding webhooks leads to another page with similarly insufficient docs: https://stripe.com/docs/payments/handling-payment-events#bui...
If you're not using their library, there's no info about how to parse the webhook signatures and verify them. There isn't on this page either: https://stripe.com/docs/api/webhook_endpoints/
It ended up taking me half an hour to find a page that actually explained (with no examples) how to actually do it.
"Use the official library (and we have no plans to support more languages)" is not excellent documentation. TBH, it was one of the more frustrating experiences I've had with anyone's API docs in the past 2 years.
No one is suggesting planning poker for qubit wiring.
A great deal of the recent progress has been on honing, parallelizing, and automating the same processes one used to do by hand/at small scale in 2013. You'll probably instantly recognize most of the things going on in the lab, and could become productive on a short schedule.
However, I'd be wary of the medium-term prospects of the field: The discord between the perceived and actual capabilities of the hardware remains as big as ever. You could consider re-entering the field if you're happy contributing to incremental technological advances relevant to other researchers. Progress with meaningful societal or economic impact is probably much further off.
-I'm 'The responsible'. Yes, as leaders, we are responsible for the results, at the same time there are people above us who is responsible for the results more than us. The responsibility is never on the shoulders of a single person in the company. When higher-ups support anti-leaders (as in this case), they take on some of our responsibility, and the honest discussion about their expectations is required. There could be lots of reasons for them being not confident in me driving the team, and it would be very beneficial to get their feedback before proceeding. Our assumptions and using formal understanding of the roles is only helping to fuel the conflict.
-The 'I know' trap. We really believe in our understanding of the future, it is always linear and always clear. At the same time, future we understand consists of 2 things: all the bad stuff happened to me before and all the good stuff happened to me before and depending on our feelings right now, we are projecting the mix of those 2 into the future. The question here is where is that 3rd category of all the thing that never happened to me? Where are the things I've never experienced? What if I don't know how this will play out? To me, creativity is something not known and something haven't been done before. Allowing ourselves to not know exactly how it will play out, helps us to keep an open mind and learn from the new experiences.
In other words we are never 100% responsible for controlling everything around us and the world is a bit more complicated than we want to believe. Hoping this was useful! Happy Friday!
If you have ever spent time in a FAANG research org - it can be incredibly frustrating to see so much lack of focus. Everybody does what they want. This is not an issue for most e.g. ML research (my org) because there is so much money to go around, and researchers will leave if they are too constrained.
For hardware/critical projects or customer retention, this is very much an issue. Just look at how the TF ecosystem developed API wise.
There can literally be a project with enormous importance for an ecosystem where multiple teams under one VP do the same thing slightly differently. VPs do nothing and have no opinion on the details. Internal and external users get frustrated because there is no clarity.
If you do a project where you have resources for just one shot in a given timespan, this simply won't cut it.
Martinis seems like a very focused leader. The problem chosen was very specific to what they knew they could do with the technology, assuming only that the theory works. He had to say no to business units asking for application value, no to easier paths to publication, no to other people trying to build their careers on a different problem, because he needed everybody’s best ideas on the one problem. But many people can’t adapt to a new problem, and many leaders can’t tell the difference between an idea for solving the problem, and an idea for solving a different problem.
The wiring thing sounds petty, but maybe it was really a divergence. I don’t know. It sounds like part of the problem is that he achieved the goal and didn’t know what to lead with next.
Also, don't underestimate wiring in a quantum computer. I don't know the details of Google's system but Quantum computers uses analog RF pulses to interact with the Qubit system which are then later digitized. The design of a wiring system in a Quantum computer is similar to what you would see designing a high end phased array radar system with the need for everything to be phase matched, highly stable, and temperature controlled except that a quantum computer is also extremely susceptible to cross talk at the interfaces. Wiring a system of Google's scale can easily run into the $100k+ range in just material and manufacturing costs. If the other person didn't have any experimental experience like Martinis says, then he would almost certainly run into problems.
In my case, I am someone who wants to do everything from first principles whereas my study leader at the time unfortunately told me "you can't understand everything". Although that statement is true, you should at least try to understand one thing really as deep as you can. But what bothered me was that if I wanted to understand something deeply, I realised I had to do it myself. So what I can say is that you don't have to be completely unfocused; it could be that your interests and objectives are different in the group.
Long story short, my HonsBSc was a basically a failure and my MSc was a success for these reasons. The funny thing is that I get satisfaction today when I do anything that would have been a great honours project in my topic (signal analysis in bioinformatics).
As opposed to what? Everyone having their own personal sort of projects or splitting up in groups of two and three is natural in the academia research groups I’ve been in to.
What is wrong with that?
Have you ever thought about how much work it takes to deliver hardware? How many teams and processes and planning there are involved from physics level to software stack to deliver something usable? It's insane. And normal processor hardware is something people have experience with. For a physics experiment, virtually everything is custom made and you only have budget for a few fixes or trials on each component. There is just not much room for slack.
I'm actually speaking from my experience in experimental physics (solid state) labs. Certainly, you can't just have teams of two entirely deciding what to do independently of the group, but the level of control and dictation Martinis is speaking about seems like a whole different level.
He got pissed just because a theorist tried to come up with an alternate way of doing this wiring and the lab leader didn't shut it down in favor of just him researching the problem.
>The pattern seems familiar, take a succesful, self-propelled creative inventor, typically an engineer kind of person, put that person in a group where they need to submit to ideas of others, and things eventually go wrong
Not saying any view particular is right or wrong since these things usually are tricky
No one likes a 'silo' either.
That said, if someone has a proven track record in an area of expertise, it probably makes more sense to organise around them and move overlapping resource on to some another area of responsibility, if only for productivity's sake.
It would only be a bad idea, if no one was allowed to review or challenge the work produced by the aforementioned expert...
Who knows.
We only have one side of the argument here. I'm sure he'll find a better environment for himself very soon.
Thing is, it can be very brutal if you are flaky. It has a very low tolerance for bullshit/lack of expertise and people will not hesitate a second to call others out on it - even in public.
This seems very Google, and not in a good way. I'm reminded of when they tried to launch Allo and Duo on the same day, causing both to flop.
Google is the poster-child of the company that has the resources to try everything, but that lacks the conviction or the leadership to actually make a decision.
Meanwhile, everybody who actually tried to follow the launch was confused about why there were two, which ones did what, why there was no interoperability, why wasn't hangouts being replaced, "Mobile-first? More like mobile-only," and "Should we even bother? They're going to kill them both off in three years anyway."
It absolutely did hurt the adoption rate -- It would have gone much better if Google management had announced one communication platform and committed to making it their bet going forward.
They were hedging, and it was obvious. Nobody wants to pay switching costs to use a new thing if the creator isn't even confident in their new thing.
Ironically, Google had this circa 2013 with Hangouts. The mobile app did SMS, im, video chat, voice chat,. you could do all the same on the web or desktop programs, including sending SMS messages from your computer.
For a short time, Google had an iMessage competitor and if they had merely stayed the course, they would have much more usage today then their fragmented explosion of mobile apps today.
Instead, they keep trying to kill Hangouts.
I dare you to use the HN search function on comments and come up with a day nobody mentioned this internal career ladder inside Google.
Really when we say google today we are 100% not talking about the place we are remembering.
Imagine if Microsoft had an Excel team and a "Spreadsheetr" team...
You mean as in a "Microsoft Office" team and a "Microsoft Works" team?
The first few tech rounds tend to be the same.
Then there is a set of research interviews and usually a research job talk.
The main observation is that hiring researchers, after passing basic tech rounds, is much more about taste and how people subjectively rate someone's research. It's insanely competitive, but in a sense it is also easier than pure SWE because there are not as many whiteboard hurdles to pass. You just can't really leetcode your way into the role, without a good track record with really interesting research most teams will not be interested.
Been curious about this too: do FAANG companies hire, say, professors with strong research records, but poor coding skills? I always wondered if everyone on these sort of team were all solid coders, or if there were people there that are exceptions.
Based on your experience do FAANG companies tend to be invested in basic research, or more product focused research?
Yes, they do. The rule of thumb is: The higher the level you are hired, the more wiggle room is there. A random PhD grad will need to pass the normal coding screens which are carried out by SWEs who do not know anything about the candidate.
Last q depends on the FAANG org, everything exists. MS research is very pure, Amazon/Apple very applied, everything in between.
Can an expert please explain the applications of this? Specifically, are they expecting to break Bitcoin, forge signatures (break SHA), and decrypt old TLS traffic (break Diffie-Hellman) in 5-10 years?
So basically US taxpayers were involuntary seed investors who funded the highest initial risk to achieve validation and proceeded to be wiped out at Round A by Google.
Other large countries' governments are definitely funding their own research groups in this space and while previously in the 80s and 90s trade sanctions were a potent threat, it's become very clear from the experiences of India and China in the 2000s that there's nothing much US can do (short of a MAD nuclear war) to hold any moderately powerful country back.
So it's best to not fritter away the lead and throw what resources it can when there's still time to keep the lead.
The US has not tried to hold China back in any way since 2000. More like it did everything possible to help them grow.
My guess is we'll see a competitive server and/or mobile chip out of China Fabs within 3 years, notwithstanding US pressure on ASML and Netherlands to not export EUV equipment.
Even agains huawei they US stopped well short of any serious actions.
Also afaik John Martinis maintained a paid and tenured position at UCSB during his work at Google.
Its the idea that the University would 'own' part of a commercial enterprise that's chilling. Means even more commercialization of Universities than at present.
Obviously noone should be forced to stay where they don't want to be or prevented to work where they want but in this case it's about what they take and bring with them beyond their innate skills.
And there comes a private company and gets whole teams and even patents and projects.
Wouldn't it be fair that tax payers also get something in return of their funding?
What's the purpose of scientific funding: to progress science or to make money?
If the goal is altruistic progression of science, then undoubtedly that's best accomplished through free, nearly-unrestricted publication. That includes both work on nonpatentable fields (fundamental science, or advances too remote from commercialization for a patent timeframe to be viable) and not aggressively pursuing the full suite of IP protections for work that may be patentable.
If the goal is to make money, why should there be public funding in the first place? We don't ordinarily expect the government to run business ventures, and treating science funding like a Bell Labs writ large would be just such a business venture.
On the balance, the situation described in this article appears to be close to an optimal outcome: foundational science happened at a university, but a corporation came in with deep pockets and significantly more funding to work on the commercialization process.
What's the purpose of scientific progress if the people can't share in the benefits?
>but a corporation came in with deep pockets
Deep pockets partially because they domicile in tax-havens, and re-contribute the bare-minimum back to the source of the foundational science, forcing that foundational science funding onto the backs of the people, via trillions in student loans.
How is this "optimal"? Do you think we wouldn't be able to search the web without Google?
I definitely think we should push for fairer and more transparent public investment in science, but saying that all downstream benefits from publicly funded efforts cannot be privatized just seems to tilt incentives in the wrong direction.
Honestly there's pretty much nothing being said in this interview. People don't get along sometimes.
Yeah that was kind of annoying. Amazing how even a certifiable genius can fall so completely for such meaningless self-help bullshit