Hacker News Reader

Comment by EarthIsHome | Hacker News Reader

College isn't as appealing as it once was. In order to participate in the economy, we need a well-paying job. We're told to get a well-paying job, we need a good degree. To get a good degree, many of us have to go into debt. We finish college with a good degree but are saddled with thousands of dollars of debt (sometimes tens of thousands). And this college debt doesn't go away if we go bankrupt. It will always follow us. So, while we're trying to pay back our debt for a good degree for a dream to live well in this life, we also have to pay for our housing, to live, to eat, etc. It makes it so hard to save up for a house or anything permanent. Everything always seems precarious because it is. We're precarious. What's the point of a college degree if we're going to be in debt while working after getting the degree? Might as well skip the whole college part.

View on HN

>thousands of dollars of debt (sometimes tens of thousands)

I'd almost venture to say "tens of thousands of dollars of debt (sometimes hundreds of thousands)"

> What's the point of a college degree if we're going to be in debt while working after getting the degree? Might as well skip the whole college part.

A bachelor's degree serves as a barrier of entry for many roles outside of IT. Historically the pay gap between the jobs you can get without, and what you make after clearing this barrier, made up for the initial investment rather quick. Now that there are diminishing returns on that investment, you need to optimize on a case by case basis. Does your chosen profession allow other paths to high paying jobs? Can you get the degree with less investment using less costly credit hours (community college first, then state university)? Is the peer group and the resulting network formed after attending college valuable enough to boost your career 5 years later? There are not that many well paying jobs accessible without a degree, I think cost optimization is worth it in the long run instead of not going to college at all.

I think the level of economic anxiety (precariousness) people have is one of the biggest mental health risks in the US. It lowers people's ability to perform cognitive tasks and results in more bad decisions.

I think in state tuition at a public university is often still a very good deal w/o nearly the debt profile.

in states with good public universities, the best value is 2 years at a good community college, then 2 years at the state school. even 2 years at a good state university is getting ridiculously expensive ($60K+).

What state schools are $60k+ for 2 years for in-state residents?

Berkeley was my guess for an expensive in-state tuition rate and they're $38k for 2 years.

Unless you're including housing/food/etc.

yes, total cost, as that's the truer measure.

Certainly not an option for everyone, but a ton of people in my state school class still lived at home. A good percentage could have lived at home but chose not to.

It's also hard for me to include housing because you'd need housing no matter what path in life you choose.

that's true, but that ignores opportunities/opportunity costs, which would cover housing/food in an alternate scenario.

UIUC is 25k a year just tuition and fees. Expensive college town room & board plus opportunity cost of education instead of working easily gets you to 30k a year.

Holy shit it's that expensive now?? Graduated from there about 15 years ago and it was maybe 8-10k a year..

The state cut all funding under the last governor so they had some major issues.

Be careful.

Rauner cut 400 million for education during a year he could make a budget with legislators.

Pat Quinn cut education spending by 340 million during a year when he got to write the budget himself because the legislature couldn't pass one.

The legislature passed a budget every year under Rauner, he refused to sign it because he wanted anti-union runners. Agreed it's been a long time coming though, definitely not just Rauner's fault.

https://admissions.illinois.edu/invest/tuition "Following are our estimated expenses for 2020-2021. Illinois Resident Tuition & Fees: $16,862-$21,956"

Plus 3700 in fees

My apologies for not quoting it originally, but it literally says "Tuition & Fees".

Except it also lists $3700 of other fees.

From others experience it's 2 years at good community college and 2.5-3 years at the good state university. I've yet to see state college take all the credits from a transfer.

admittedly i don't have first-hand experience in this, but my understanding from friends & family here in CA is that limiting time at a state university to 2 years (and sometimes less) is entirely possible, with some planning.

the confounding factor for young adults, i suppose, is that it's hard to be certain enough about future interests amid all the possibilities not yet forgone to stay the course without (understandable) alteration (i changed course a few times in college myself).

It’s too bad college has become so transactional. Not judging — there’s a lot of wealth inequality in the world, and the vast majority of people don’t have the luxury.

But there’s another aspect to college — the friendships, the discovery, finding interests, finding yourself.

These aspects have gone to the wayside, because for the majority of people there’s just not enough money to justify this. It feels similar to the cuts to art and music in lower schools - “what good are those programs for getting a job?”

You are still way better off with college than without. It’s not as good a deal as it used to be but it’s still the best deal available.

I'm not so sure. I would probably choose a vocational apprenticeship over a B.A. in Sociology from State U.

A B.A. in Sociology isn't a good comparison to vocational apprenticeships. A better one would be a B.E in some kind of engineering.

I agree with you, but that wasn't the claim that I was replying to.

How many people with a vocational degree make >100k? Not many. The path to higher income is paved with credentials if they make sense or not.

I think it depends on what you're doing. If you want to be an artist or a writer, maybe community college would be a better deal.

On the other hand, if you want to be an engineer then it's pretty important to go to a reputable institution - at least in the field I work in.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com