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Comment by jdkee | Hacker News Reader

Nationalize Boeing in the interest of national secuirty.

Initially I was opposed to this idea, but I'm coming around on it. We invest heavy tax subsidies into Boeing, and time and time again their executives seek short term profits at the expense of safety, worker protections, jobs, etc.

A nationalized Boeing could have different objectives, provide a strong set of working class jobs, and ensure we continue to produce planes here in the States.

Let it go into bankruptcy.

Investors will feel the pain and demand a change of leadership (very badly needed after the 737 MAX debacle).

A bankruptcy that large will be shepherded by the government to prevent too many long-term job losses and to prevent the defense-sensitive projects/info from being owned by foreign companies.

There was already a change of leadership in the wake of the MAX issues. Are you suggesting that more changes need to be made? If so, which would be most impactful and why?

I've always thought it was sorta ridiculous that the venn diagram of people screaming at the government over the handling of the coronavirus and the people who want to nationalise industry is nearly a perfect circle.

Boeing is under defacto state control. National security is not a problem.

No, capitalism is good we just have to reign it in like Europe and Asia.

Capitalism sort of implies competition...

> Capitalism sort of implies competition...

Actually, I don't think it does:

https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/capitalism:

> An economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.

A privately-owned monopoly that ruthlessly crushes all competition is just as capitalistic as a privately-owned competitor in a market with perfect competition. The key concept is private ownership and control, not competition. Competition is is only required if you want the resulting system to have some positive externalities for consumers and society at large.

The only thing that capitalism implies is the existence of a class that does not work, but collects profits from the capital it owns.

That class sees competition is an unnecessary, and a profit-reducing problem[1] that can be routed around.

[1] See Thiel's monopoly essay.

Instead of aspiring to be capitalistic we should aspire to have a competitive market economy.

This. The only stuff that needs to be nationalized is some fraction of certain industries that are critical for the nation (eg infrastructure, shipping, defense, energy, etc...).

> This. The only stuff that needs to be nationalized is some fraction of certain industries that are critical for the nation (eg infrastructure, shipping, defense, energy, etc...).

Boeing is a big defense contractor:

https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/01/30/boeing-earnings-th...:

> In addition to being the world's biggest producer of commercial airplanes, Boeing is also one of the world's biggest defense businesses -- and this is key to understanding Boeing stock. Commercial Airplanes may provide 69% of Boeing's revenue, but according to data from S&P Global Market Intelligence, Commercial Airplanes contributes only 54% of the company's profits. The bulk of Boeing's remaining business comes from its big Defense, Space & Security division, which comprises three parts: Military Aircraft, Network & Space Systems, and Global Services & Support.

lol yeah everything is just peachy with American capitalism

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