Lithuanian capital to be turned into vast open-air cafe | Hacker News Reader

Lithuanian capital to be turned into vast open-air cafe

theguardian.com

352 pointsedward94 comments

From the opposite side of the spectrum, meet Antwerp Belgium.

First thing they did under the guise of "Corona measures' was lift the low emission zone so the most heavily polluting vehicles could once again roam free in the city, and make all on street parking free.

Their pretends that this was 'to give maximal access to care workers' fell flat immediately as all caseworkers that needed city access already had complying vehicles, and they now have trouble finding spaces to park as all streets are just permanently filled with long-term parked cars. Yet, they still persist with the idiocy.

> they still persist with the idiocy

Also, according to https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

is Belgium at this moment, except for San Marino of only 30,000 inhabitants, the country with the highest death rate in the world from coronavirus epidemics, per million of population:

San Marino: 1,208

Belgium: 655

Spain: 519

Italy: 458

UK: 384

France: 369

Netherlands: 275

Sweden: 244

USA: 186

Germany: 77

Greece: 13

I believe, if the rest of the world is not much aware of that fact, that also says something about Belgian politics. I'd love to read more about the perspective of Belgians here.

Edit: see also https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps which I explain in the later post -- that independent, different statistics is, approximately, not disproving the ratios for the European countries, except for the UK, where it seems there was some kind of underreporting of Covid-19 related deaths.

Belgium counts all deaths from care homes as COVID-19 deaths. Hardly a fair comparison, even if I have my gripes with the politics.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-52466471/page/3

"29 Apr: The death toll from the virus in the UK rises to more than 26,000 after care home deaths are included for first time"

Apart from that, luckily, we have also "all deaths" (for any reason whatsoever) statistics for participating EU countries (and, still, UK), so we can compare these too:

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps

Even there Belgium has had quite high z-score ("computed on the de-trended and de-seasonalized series"), although there are two obviously worse at the peak: UK (much worse and without any indication of improving at the moment, according to the available statistics) and Spain, which already improved.

At the moment it seems to me that it was mostly the UK that just didn't report correctly, not that the others overreported.

I'm not sure on the Belgium situation but there is quite the lag between death and reporting of these care home numbers. For a care home death to be counted towards the coronavirus total a death certificate is required which takes time.

There has also been a large deal of controversy over the counting of care home deaths in the UK with the government consistently being called out by care home operators for unbelievable care home death numbers.

> There has also been a large deal of controversy over the counting of care home deaths in the UK with the government consistently being called out by care home operators for unbelievable care home death numbers.

Do you have something about "unbelievable"? Per BBC:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52284281

"There is a two-week time lag in the data collected for official statistics. The most recent figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) are for the week ending 17 April. At that point, there had been 3,096 Covid-19-related deaths in care homes in England and Wales."

"the Care Quality Commission (CQC)" "already has to be notified when there is a death in a care home. It is also now asking care providers to give daily updates on deaths and the number of confirmed and suspected coronavirus cases.

Between 10 and 25 April, their findings show that 4,343 individuals died in care homes from coronavirus."

Looking at euromomo, it appears to me that the UK did not report some deaths related to Covid-19, the question is only where exactly.

Edit: to pjc50:

> San Marino lost 1,208 people (so far) out of 30k?

No. See again: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/san-marino... Total deaths: 41 == 0.12 percent == 1,208 per million

Unbelievably high or unbelievably low?

It's worth nothing from the euromomo site that the latest data is from week 16 (it's currently week 18) and the top of the page says it was last updated in week 17.

They also note on the page:

> Week of study: 17, 2020.Must be interpreted with caution as adjustments for delayed registrations may be imprecise.

This is often problem with comparing covid19 stats, or any stats for that matter.

A better way to compare is excess deaths over seasonal average (or last year's seasonal statistic) per million. That does not tell you exactly how many died of covid-19, but is a more useful comparison.

Among the many COVID stat visualization websites out there, are there any which actually provide that statistic?

>> excess deaths over seasonal average

> are there any which actually provide that statistic?

Sure, as I've linked it here twice already:

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps

Belgium is among the top three there too.

Also see on ft.com:

https://www.ft.com/coronavirus-latest

the "Death rates have climbed far above historical averages" graph.

and from Italy, made on March 16, 2020:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Is_COVID-19_like_a_flu%3F...

All of these also directly disprove "same as flu" narration. These are all in spite of most of the world having some kind of measures introduced.

NYT did something similar to what you are looking for https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronaviru...

Agreed that’s the better metric, but there is a long lag before mortality statistics are complete in most places. Most jurisdictions report a lower number immediately, and then continue to revise it up for weeks or even months. If you don’t adjust for this it will look like the jurisdictions that complete their reporting most quickly are the hardest-hit.

Correct.

According to what i read, this means that 50% are confirmed cases and 50% are possible cases.

Other countries only count the confirmed cases.

Ironically they were all rolling over each other to call out the Dutch response as too lax and a prelude to doom and disaster.

It wasn't too lax, but it was about two weeks too late.

San Marino lost 1,208 people (so far) out of 30k? That's absolutely horrendous :( A massive tragedy for my favourite microstate, the last of the Eurovision-participating ones.

No, 1208 per million inhabitants. They lost 41.

Thanks for clearing that up.

That's 1,208 per million. The actual number of deaths is 41 as of today.

The stuff I read about Brussels recently on the news tells a different story.

To give one example:

"Brussels has gone yet further. From May 4, the Belgian capital’s entire city core will be a priority zone for cyclists and pedestrians, one in which cars cannot exceed a speed of 20 kph and must give way in the roads to people on foot or on bikes. This comes on top of an ongoing pedestrianization plan designed to make Brussels’ core a more attractive place for people on foot."

https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2020/04/coronavirus-r...

Yes, but Brussels is not Antwerp.

Well, that is true. I misread that.

Brussels is run by a socialist/green coalition and has been doing great things for sustainable mobility.

Antwerp is run by a populist extreme right neoliberal party.

"extreme right" with no proof? Vlaams Belang is extreme right, not N-VA which has the mayor of Antwerp. You are listening too much to the leftish Wallonian controlled state media ( cfr. Stéphane Moreau with Nethys / Tecteo on Wikipedia)

They just think the south takes too much advantage ( eg. with 4 million people they have the same voting % in the country as the north with 6 million people).

While the "right" north has to subsidize the "socialist" south for more than 40 years without no improvement at all ( eg. just check the unemployment %)

Highest criminality rates in Belgium are in Brussels, Molenbeek, ... with also, no improvement in the foreseeable future. Station north is a public train station where everyone stays away from ( too dangerous ).

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/St%C3%A9phane_Moreau_(homme_po...

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nethys

https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enodia

All financial political scandals are involved with leftisch politicians: Publifin, La Carolorégienne, Anne-Marie Lizin, Michel Daerden, Van Cauwenberghe ( Charleroi), Agusta-Dassault, ...

And last but not last, specific for Brussels: Samusocial where Yvan Mayeur ( the ex-mayor of Brussels) was involved with Fraud and intimidation, with their "non-profit for homeless people", LOL! It's despicable!

https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samusocial_Brussels

I'd prefer Antwerp above Brussels every single day of the year.

I found this even more brilliant: "Vilnius authorities have also given the city’s public health workers €400,000-worth (£350,000) of restaurant vouchers intended both as gesture of thanks for their work and a much-needed stimulus to the city’s cafes."

London should do more of this. Every city should do more of this.

Do those lunch/meal vouchers exist at all in the UK? Many workers here in Czech Republic get them as a work benefit, and I suspect this is what they're referring to. It varies per employer but we get roughly one ticket per working day, worth 110kč ($4.40, or €4) and they're valid in pretty much every restaurant in the city so basically everyone goes out for lunch.

When I was in the UK they didn't have anything like this.

We have them in France too, but half is payed by the employee (taken from the salary). But we can also use them when buying groceries (not all supermarkets accept them, but a lot of them do)

Yep same deal as us, a mix of employer/employee contributions pay for them, they can be used for some items in supermarket (not for things like alcohol) and I think the employer contribution is tax exempt too

I have never heard of this before. It is fascinating to me that health care gets decoupled from employment but eating is considered an employment benefit.

I don't really object or anything, it just seems out of character.

Wouldn't it be better if the government did this directly by the same logic you'd apply to health care? Making employee meals tax deductible instead of just giving everyone a government funded food benefit sounds much more like what I'd expect in the US.

It's an interesting comparison, but I don't really think it's in the same ballpark as healthcare being provided by your employer. It's cheap (less than $90/month for mine) and it's optional - nobody's dying or going bankrupt because they don't have stravenky. It's better to think of it like the free coffee, fruit, breakfast and snacks you might have in your office. I'm sure someone's made an argument that they'd rather get a few extra bucks each month than have free coffee in the office, but not many :-)

"Making employee meals tax deductible" sounds like I have to keep receipts of what I ate and file them with my taxes to receive the benefit. But it's just that some amount of the value of these vouchers is subtracted from the subtotal used to calculate my income tax.

It's a small thing, but honestly it's a really nice benefit

Sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like you'd deduct it from personal taxes. In the US, health insurance paid by your employer is automatically deducted from your taxes so it is analogous.

The small amount almost makes it stranger, why not just give the benefit to everyone? Food seems like it would be a basic necessity comparable to healthcare, especially when you're talking about such a small amount, and it boosts the local economy just as much if it's coming from an employed person as an unemployed person.

Edit: But yes, I see your point about it being intended to be analogous to "snacks in the office" or whatever. It just seems very strange that it would be in widespread use but tied to your employer. It does sound nice. I just don't understand why it's employer run if it's a cultural expectation.

You make a good point though, in an ideal world[0] the next step might be the government stepping up to provide something like this to everyone. Remember that what the government is "paying" here (or rather waiving) is the tax on that, not the entire amount (so I dunno, $9 instead of $90). The government here isn't spectacularly wealthy though so I don't know if they'd be able to fund the full amount without raising taxes, which would be a tough sell.

[0] = my idea of an ideal world is very subjective so might not match up with everyone else's!

Yeah, I assume trying to convince people to change will run into roadblocks.

Of course the solution seems like the same as getting publicly funded healthcare in the US -- raise taxes by an amount that offsets the benefit, people with higher pay take a small loss while people who are unemployed or low income get stable help buying food.

Definitely not recommending fighting over that given the stakes, I assume unemployed people get reasonably generous government funded assistance with paying for food? As long as that's the case it just seems... odd... but not that strange, my partner works for GrubHub and gets a weekly benefit to subsidize personal meals. But the US has a totally different attitude about how employers should support employees so it doesn't really stand out here at all.

Healthcare is universal. That's just a bonus.

In France, it's considered an alternative to giving access to a (company-funded) cafeteria, companies are supposed to give one or the other.

In Spain it's a extra on top of the salary but buying groceries with them is verbotten. You can use them to buy drinks at bars though.

Missing the time when I could eat at restaurants guilt-free almost every day at lunchtime.

Seem the UK had them quite early, but abolished them a few years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meal_voucher#United_Kingdom

First I've heard of it. I doubt many companies took advantage of the scheme and issued them and I guess very few restaurants would've accepted them anyway.

As a kid in the '80s or '90s, i remember seeing signs on restaurant windows or in menus saying they accepted Visa, MasterCard, American Express, and Luncheon Vouchers. I never actually saw a Luncheon Voucher though.

Hopefully some of it remains after. Car centered cities are awful for human beings, we should reclaim some of this space for us.

This move is mainly about taking existing pedestrian spaces, and making them available for bars and restaurants. The city has a lot of parks and plazas, that are often used to host outdoor events and festivals - which won't be happening this year. Since last year part of the main street (Gedimino Pr.) has been pedestrian only during weekends, so already restaurants have been able to use that for seating, and this extends that.

We usually have warm summers and long days (it's still light at 11pm in the middle of June), so it's very popular to sit outside where available. My only complaint is that people are allowed to smoke in these areas (with no seperation). For a bar I understand, but eating at a restaurant when someone is smoking next to you is not very pleasant.

Vilnius is one of the most beautiful capital cities I've had the pleasure of travelling to, and the one that can really pull this off. Low density of population, huge parks and open spaces. It's beautiful.

Low density compared to NYC or London or another huge city. Not a low density compared to US sprawling cities.

Hello from Vilnius, the City already has parking zones. As a normal person its very hard to park in the City center. Here is some information: https://www.govilnius.lt/plan-your-trip/getting-around/parki...

Also, some streets are already car-free and only delivery vehicals can enter them.

After this Covid returns to normal and its safe I will go and visit Vilnius as a tourist! :)

You should take this test first: https://vilniusgspot.com/

That's it I'm going to Lithuania for vacation also. Pretty neat way to get tourists prepared...

This is the website of the day. People who created it are gods of marketing.

I can count on my fingers the number of times I've seen a website that was this well made!

My day is measurably better having come across this site.

Traffic in Vokieciu, Traku, etc streets is a shit show. I've been advocating for ages the old town needs to be shut completely. It has such an amazing potential if not for stupid cars there.

That said, Vilnius needs to improve traffic hotspots a lot. Rush hours exist everywhere, but Vilnius is noticeably bad. Bus lanes needs better isolation too (some form of Rapid Bus implementation).

Well, at least these streets have pavements, but letting cars in the Pilies street (generally a pedestrian street full of tourists) is absolutely ridiculous. Can we start a petition? :)

True that we have a lot of traffic there but also it's not that bad as in other cities I have lived in.

What I think Vilnius needs is a metro. Since you can not just create new road lanes in the old town.

How do they handle disabled residents in those zones?

Presumably with a permit.

Depending on the disability, it's somewhere a disabled person might aim to live, or avoid. No cars is great for someone blind, for example.

> Car centered cities are awful for human beings

Do you just mean that a car centred city is more noisy and dirty than an economically-equivalent city that has fewer cars? They've been amazing for human beings if you take a broader/longer perspective.

They're pedestrian hostile. That creates a vicious cycle of driving people out to suburbs, hollowing out businesses that would cater to full time residents, making it even less desirable to live there.

>Car centered cities are awful for human beings, we should reclaim some of this space for us.

This might sound shocking, but cars are driven by human beings. When a human being is driving a car, the space taken by that car is actually being used by a human being.

A portion of that space is being occupied by a human, but it's not all being used by the human. We both know you know this.

Cars are positive for humans. Dense living conditions like NYC are not sustainable. You burn out.

Sometimes you want to get away from all people. Car is essential for this.

Perhaps look at a different perspective.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilnius

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilnius#Transport

I lived in NYC for 11 years and I felt trapped. I moved to a rural area and I’m done. Your opinions change as you age.

NYC isn't an example of a human-oriented city. The roads are huge, full of loud traffic, and the cars have priority. Constant sirens and horns in Manhattan, and not much better elsewhere.

I'm not sure there is an example of a big, dense human-oriented city, but the closest examples (places like Venice, Ghent, Copenhagen) are wonderful places that have a completely different feel to a city like London or NYC.

I don't know how much of that is due to the size difference, but in London on the days where the city gets shut to traffic, it feels a much more welcoming, relaxing and pleasant place. The lack of constant car sounds and being able to walk where you want makes a huge difference in livability. It feels closer to when I used to live more rural.

You cite audible concerns which I don’t share. Freedom of movement is my priority now. You don’t get that with shared transport.

Needing an expensive car to get anywhere is the opposite of "freedom of movement." If you live in a car-dependant place, but are unable to drive for any reason (disability, age, poverty, weather, etc.) then you have no freedom of movement. Cars provide the illusion of freedom, because we've reshaped our society to serve them.

That makes absolutely no sense. I broke my leg and I was disabled for 6 months. Having a car during that period was essential.

Having a car is a nice luxury. Public transportation is a pain.

What you find here is that people with broken legs are still regularly walking around using crutches, which is advisable from a health perspective. We do of course have other systems for disabled people to get around if public transport is unsuitable.

But you're right in a way. Driving is more pleasant than public transport, but it's completely not scalable as we've seen over the last 50 years. Rural living isn't scalable globally either except in relatively few countries (USA being one) due to the land and infrastructure constraints. The only reason driving a car and living rural seems affordable is you're not paying for the externalities, and are in a sparsely populated country.

Most people in the world are going to need to live most of their lives in urban built up areas, and it's right that public policy favours the those people, and that is best achieved by discouraging car use in favour of transit, walking and cycling.

If you want to drive a car that's fine, but people who do should pay the costs, and that includes the additional maintenance costs that delivery services should be charged for sending heavy destructive vehicles over rural roads. Kind of like flying first class.

I.d.k. around here we have sworn by a good network of buses and trains. If I feel trapped I hop on the train, in an hour change to a bus, and I am in the middle of nowhere.

You still depend on train service etc for transportation. Being self sufficient is freedom.

Take a bike or train. Or both. It's ridiculous the rest of us have to suffer because people don't want to knock knees with others.

Adding more bike paths to reach city center from suburbs and locking down city center for cars should follow next. There are plenty of research which shows that slow traffic brings more business to shops

This is what is happening right now :)

Just 2 streets near by my home got the bike path treatment.

It was a 2 way car road now it is a bike path and 1 way car road :D

Also you can turn in your old car for a e scooter or a bike https://www.lrt.lt/en/news-in-english/19/1168325/lithuania-o...

Oldtown is mostly for tourists/partying nowadays (as in before the whole Corona mess). Offices and everyday shops/services are moving out for the past 2 decades. Living downtown is getting less and less desirable too because students are priced out while older folks don't want 24/7 party all around. No bike paths will change that.

On the bright side, no sane person drives into oldtown for a looong time. Especially after recent raise of parking fees. Quite a few streets are already car-free. Transit traffic is going to be banned any time now (said for the past 5 or 10 years, but eventually it will happen).

As for bike paths, few neighbourhoods were well connected for decade+. More and more connections are being built. Terrain and city density is not exactly friendly though. Downtown is, well, down in a valley. While banks ain't truly steep, living in a flat country it is quite a mental stop. On top of that, lots of people live in soviet-era blocks 5km+ from downtown. Add that bike paths ain't bee-line straight and it ends up a 30min+ ride one way for a beer.

Kills two birds with one stone: gives restaurants an ability to conduct business safely, and takes advantage of the current drop in vehicle traffic to make Vilnius more pedestrian-friendly. I'd love to see cities in the U.S. do this.

My skim reading eyes say this as "Lithuanian capital to be turned into vast open-aircraft carrier" for a second. Next thing Vilnius will be making port calls to Taipei, and throwing forklifts overboard in international waters.

We should definitely suggest this to our mayor :D

Tangent: it is somehow so pleasing to me in this context that I can recognize your username as a Lithuanian surname. Gives the internet anonymity some flavor, I guess :)

(for everyone else: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithuanian_name )

If that were Zuokas, definitely.

Aaaah the only Ig Nobel Prize winner in Lithuania!

For those following along from the side, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art%C5%ABras_Zuokas#Awards_and...

Portland, OR is planning on closing 100 miles of streets to help provide space for social distancing. I hope that from all this we get more initiatives around the world like this.

https://beta.portland.gov/eudaly/news/2020/4/28/transportati...

I'm still not sure how I'm feeling about ending the lockdown this early, but the initiative is great and I'm glad to see the government helping its people and businesses. Not to mention that last paragraph. How feasible is it for other countries and cities to do it?

I agree. Several elements of lockdown are being lifted in italy on monday. Watching the people in my street thinking it's all over now...well, it soon may be. No proper distancing, kids from different families playing together - in the streets, but also in communal hallways so you have to ask them to move before you can pass. People thinking that being on one side of a fence protects you. Trying to tell people the threat is still there, it's just that the hospitals are slightly better prepared, doesn't mean we're anywhere near the end.

If you haven't been, it's a beautiful city.

Way to go Lithuania and great idea!

this is awesome!

How does one dine at an open-air café or retaurant while wearing a mask?

One doesn't, which is why the tables will be spaced.

My point was that TFA also says masks must be worn in public spaces.

There's an exception when seated at an open cafe

I think you meant to write “capitol”

The article refers to

capital, 3. (countable) A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

not

capitol, 2. (US) Any building or complex of buildings in which a legislature meets.

[Definitions from English Wiktionary]

Being a UK newspaper, the Guardian would probably use "Lithuanian parliament buildings" or similar if that's what they meant.

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