Covid-19 – a new regime of surveillance? [audio] | Hacker News Reader

Covid-19 – a new regime of surveillance? [audio]

bbc.co.uk

48 points__ka15 comments

From the interview:

> People could look back in 100 years and identify the coronavirus epidemic as the moment when a new regime of surveillance took over, especially surveillance under the skin ... is maybe the most important development of the 21st century, this ability to hack human beings, to go under the skin, collect biometric data, analyze it, and understand people better than they understand themselves. This is maybe the most important event of the 21st century.

From Dec 2019, https://news.mit.edu/2019/storing-vaccine-history-skin-1218

> MIT researchers have now developed a novel way to record a patient’s vaccination history: storing the data in a pattern of dye, invisible to the naked eye, that is delivered under the skin at the same time as the vaccine ... By selectively loading microparticles into microneedles, the patches deliver a pattern in the skin that is invisible to the naked eye but can be scanned with a smartphone ... “It’s possible someday that this ‘invisible’ approach could create new possibilities for data storage, biosensing, and vaccine applications

One thing came to mind. Living in Sweden - There's no shared/common place where vaccination records are stored... neither for infants or adults. This, because every region (within Sweden) has its own systems, responsibilities and public procurement processes for IT for Healthcare. Also, privacy. One has to store a physical paper vaccination card, remember where it is between the vaccinations and bring it. Any input from other countries? I'd say Swedes in general think the US healthcare system sounds awful. Would be 'funny' though if this were something Americans have.

> I'd say Swedes in general think the US healthcare system sounds awful.

It is awful, though the main problem with the system is in the financing of care, as far as I can tell. You would think that would be easier to fix than developing a rather more advanced healthcare system, because there are already very qualified professionals, equipment, etc.

In any case, there's no centralized database in the US as well. From the CDC website (where the "unfortunately" is in response to locating lost records):

> Unfortunately, there is no national organization that maintains vaccination records. The CDC does not have this information. The records that exist are the ones you or your parents were given when the vaccines were administered and the ones in the medical record of the doctor or clinic where the vaccines were given.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/adults/vaccination-records.html

For Covid-19, there are county and state databases which can record people who test positive, and their "contact traces" (e.g. people you spent more than 15 minutes within 6 feet). Not much is known about the federal health surveillance system, but it includes Palantir, who have also worked with the Census Bureau, https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/21/21230453/palantir-coronav...

I'm not entirely sure what your point is. Tracking individuals affected by an ongoing situation is rather different, and seems to be the norm in most countries that are responding to the virus including the one where I live. Most seem to have more centralization than in the US, where states almost exclusively mediate the measures taken to reduce spread, etc.

In Italy it is done at a regional level, at least, if not centralized (but I have only experience from my local area). I know my medical record in the healthcare system has all the details of all the vaccinations I've done.

It varies by state, probably. In my state the government has vaccination records. Schools can access them, as can your primary care physician.

The thing I don't understand is why people can't be trusted to just have and store their data themselves and provide it on-demand. I'm perfectly fine with having my own medical records on a keychain that I have control over, which I share with medical professionals when needed. Give me a standardized data storage dog tag and I'll just wear it all the time ..

That's because you still cherish the comfy illusion of not being a sheep in a carefully managed flock - which is by design btw, so all is well.

I'm actually happy about living in Europe with GDPR implemented. It was (and still is to some extent) a big hassle (me working in IT) and it was also filling up the news and inboxes for some time. Kind of like Covid-19 is now.

It's possible to just send a company an email, ask them to delete all the data they have related to you that aren't required to archive for legal/accounting reasons and it will happen. I've tried.

I'm also a bit surprised that "Covid-19"-apps is seen as a silver bullet to help solve the crisis. It's like the governments and big companies feel the need to fit the phrase "there's and app for that". Also, what will the actual value be? It's hard to see it as a consumer (semi-)quarantining in his/her home. Easy to conspiracy theorise on them finding a reason to just start watching everyone's step.

I think I will do this before Jan 31st with FAANGS and Twitter then. Living in the UK they love unrelenting surveillance, the more the better.

In for instance Belgium and the Netherlands many constitutional rights have simply been suspended because of the Coronavirus. If you think GDPR is going to save you you’re going to end up disappointed.

Laws when introduced in Britain that add value for the police are rarely rolled back unilaterally. It generally requires a fight through the courts that takes many year. E.g. ID cards at the end of WW2.

Thanks for sharing this! I recently read Homo Deus and I was wondering how he feels about the first few chapters of his book now with covid-19 having joined the party.

Somehow, the Blockchain has to play into this.

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