US Senators Introduce Resolution to Allow Remote Voting During Emergencies
durbin.senate.gov
durbin.senate.gov
[EDIT] correction: it's not a bill, either, it's (as the headline correctly notes) a resolution to change Senate rules.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Maximum_Speed_Law
> States had to agree to the limit if they desired to receive federal funding for highway repair.
Those hours spent on the road are hours that people could be spending with their family, at work, or doing whatever else they like.
According to the Census Bureau, 128 million today commute daily in the US. Let's say they spend an average of 30 minutes on the highway at a top speed of 65 mph. If we raised the speed limit by 50% (to 97.5 mph), then the average commute would become: 30 / 1.5 = 20 minutes.
Each individual would save 10 minutes a day. With 252 working days a year, that's 2520 minutes saved a year -- which is a total of 42 hours saved per year. That's a lot of time. Across 128 million commuters, we'd save 5.376 billion hours per year. If people earned an average of $20/hour, that would be $107 billion of added economic activity per year. Whereas even 1% of gas savings would not be more than $2 billion saved per year.
I'm regularly driving 150 kilometers on the fabled Autobahn, with no speed limit for the most part (and some 120 km/h speed limit sections), and the difference between "I feel great, let's drive 180" and "Let's take it slow and drive 100 or 110" is surprisingly small, because that top speed is only attainable for short stretches of time.
All the 55mph limit on that particular road does in my mind is give law enforcement a pretext to make fishing stops.
I can't recall a time I ever saw traffic go ~55 on a limited access road without the presence of inclement weather or severe traffic congestion. When you consider the kind of traffic conditions that are the norm in rural ares I don't think a national 55mph speed limit makes sense at all.
Edit: I'm curious to know how a comment that is simply stating my observations and opinions can be considered so wrong.
Tons of people on both sides of the isle agree that implementing things like the national speed limit and drinking age of 21 by withholding federal funding from the states that don't goose step in line is a backhanded way of enacting legislation and/or an end run around the constitution.
Sure you can do things that way, but you have to ask yourself if it's really worth it in the long run to normalize that kind of legislative behavior in exchange for getting whatever policy point you want a couple years sooner.
Edit: To reply to your comment below I guess you could say, "no the federal government doesn't have jurisdiction, but that hasn't stopped them in the past"
Oh, and it can't be too significant, because the Supreme Court shut down the Medicaid expansion requirement (expand Medicaid or lose all related funding) in the ACA because the funding was too much of states' budgets.
It's a fine line to walk.
Speaker Pelosi says she will push for these funds in any next round of stimulus.
Article 1 Section 4 of the Constitution:
The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing [sic] Senators.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_One_of_the_United_Stat...
"Manner of Elections" certainly sounds like it would allow Congress to pass a law mandating the elections must be vote by mail, specifically for Senators and Representatives.
This does not apply to the President due to states having the jurisdiction to decide how electoral college electors are chosen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Two_of_the_United_Stat...
So Congress has partial authority, the question is if Congress passed a vote by mail law for Senators and Representatives, would states have other ballot measures or positions (Such as the President) that would not be vote by mail in the same election.
Everything on the news looks ironic now because the political class has realized there's almost no limit to what they can get away with.
I was born and grew up in Scotland. I remember the first time I watched Fox News after moving to the states - for almost fifteen minutes I genuinely thought I was watching some (honestly pretty funny) satire.
Also wasn't this the same channel that argued that they are allowed to present false news (or something similar)?
This is not me defending FOX. It's more of me railing against other forms of news that I also don't like but sometimes get a presumed pass. I see them as the opposite side of the coin.
EDIT: I know this is going to get down-voted. But if you disagree I'd really like to know why. I am someone who listens to others, and am curious why you disagree with this sentiment.
I'll take a stab at it. I agree with you that Fox actually does have some decent news output at various points in the day (dearly departed Shep...), but I simply don't think that CNN has any equivalent to the Fox opinion programming. MSNBC comes closer but it still doesn't have hosts spouting outright disinformation on a regular basis.
What forms of disinformation have you found? And I'd like to classify disinformation as a situation you feel they are being purposeful about misinformation. I believe we're both going from the same definition but it's always good to be clear upfront.
One example is the remarkably-common “mistake” of putting a “(D)” after the name of an obscure congressman or senator caught committing some crime or other, when the person in question was a Republican.
Or the recent coronavirus coverage e.g. https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/media/4907...
For example. We have done more testing in the USA than in Italy, we also have more deaths than Italy. When you look at Per-Capita the opposite is true. When you mix and match you can say, no we do more daily testing but THEY have more per capita deaths.
All of this is when I looked a few days ago, it's possible that there will be a period that we have the highest per-capita in one and not the other etc. But all of that tells a story when you look at it holistically.
Fox seems to be instead trying to balance Economics with the health implications. Which is a very important thing for us to consider and we as a world do with things like the seasonal Flu etc.
Mislabeling is ridiculous. My frustration came from their treatment of Yang and Gabbard. https://thehill.com/homenews/media/476951-cnbc-uses-wrong-ph.... Yes I know CNBC not CNN, but I've spent 30 minutes writing this and I've seen similar things at CNN.
Anyway thanks for your reply.
I was sharing a personal anecdote of something that happened to me. Why would I add “CNN/MSNBC” to the sentence when I didn’t watch those channels?
Nowadays, outside of a couple of notable exceptions (Fareed Zakaria’s GPS and Perhaps one or two others) all of the stations are absolute total garbage. They are only worth watching when a live, raw feed of a major event is occurring and I turn it off when the commentary starts.
Fair enough. I infrequently get situations where I have to watch Fox/CNN or at least it's on in the background. But I find them both to be aggravating in similar ways.
I comment because a lot of people use this to justify their side by attacking the other. I've been leaning into other sources a lot. I find Bloomberg still has issues but I like them more.
The BBC also has a similar short "headlines" podcast that is worth listening to that is updated hourly.
For long-form stuff, I find a lot of the finance-focused news sources to be about the most reliable/ spin-minimizing. Stuff like The Economist, the Wall Street Journal and Marketplace (NPR) generally get the facts correct and are generally fairly clear when expressing an opinion versus stating a face. Their biases (e.g. The Economist is pro-free market) are clearly stated up-front.
Le Monde Diplomatique is a solid addition, as is the English version of Al Jazeera (the Arabic version is supposedly much more biased but I can't confirm that).
Der Speigel is good but I rarely read it. Kommersant.ru is also decent (I use Google Translate). Again, even in. countries with authoritarian regimes, the ruling-classes need a way to roughly understand what is going on and usually this means the financial publications are closer to "the truth" than other sources.
Channel Four news from the UK is a solid TV News show, with journalists that hammer home on tough questions, but I haven't watched it regularly for a decade and it may have changed a lot.
Also, I just saw Fareed Zakaria the between your first comment and today interviewing Bill Gates. It was really well done. A great recommendation. I remember seeing him before but he hadn't registered as an individual to watch out for.
1. Yup - the News Hour is where like 90% of the MSM consumers I know get their news now.
Another interesting albeit anecdotal thing I've notices is the progressive portion of the party moving so far left that they have started classifying some democrats as conservative. I don't think this has played out in the MSM yet but it's going to.
I can (as someone who now leans more left than right) say that if I had to pick I'd choose CNN over FOX/MSNBC. But I'd still have blindspots. If you listen to any of the networks in isolation you can't see the counterpoint. I'd also argue that our modern algorithms are more harmful in this way. If you watch one leaning show, it recommends that over others for a while.
In any case, I stopped watching broadcast TV a decade ago; especially news shows. The signal to noise ratio is just unacceptable to my brain these days. I get more information out of a 5 second glance at my news feed in the morning and magnitudes more information by doing that for a bit longer. They really dumb down everything on tv until even the most retarded vegetable still watching can grasp the basics and that apparently takes ages and endless repeating of things in 3 word sentences. People with a functioning brain stopped being part of the target audience ages ago.
In all fairness, people complaining about how retarded the news is is nothing new and was a popular pass time in 16th & 17th century British press as well as in Roman times even. People, like me, complaining about the quality of reporting is as old as the concept of publishing information in pretty much any form. Information is power and manipulating the masses through any of the channels information spreads is part of the game. And knowing that is the game has been the way to move up in society for just as long.
> Absolutely. America is internally fractured enough now to make any resistance movement useless. Most people are content to attack each other while the political/managerial class makes further extractions and the world moves beyond American hegemony.
> It's sad, really. This country pulled in generally the same direction for a long time. We don't have that strength anymore.
Which was deleted but raised some interesting points about the unification and cohesion of resistance movements and revolutions by my reading and I wanted to delve into movement fracturing even if that comment has been removed.
I don't think change movements are ever unified with the possible exception of those against hard force backed governments. Unless someone is literally beheading people to stay in power the revolution (or just political shift) will happen long before there is a unified and majority based embraced of the new order. Revolutions and resistance seemed eternally relegated to the fringe and exposed to excessive fracturing. This may possibly be due to the zealotry of those on the fringes or the academic origins of most political movements, but I'm quite uncertain as to the definite cause.
That said most political movements happen in stages where political ideals are embraced over time, in 2016 a 15$ minimum wage was decried as crazy and extremist and universal healthcare was viewed as an albatross, in this election round even Klobuchar had a plan that leaned toward universal healthcare.
Lastly, if by resistance movement you meant some sort of armed uprising - that's never going to happen in the US without it being a full blown coup which doesn't seem to fit the framing of "resistance movement" very much. The military far outclasses private individuals - even while the US might be the most armed populace, the US military is even more excessive.
that didn't help against insurgents in Afghanistan/Iraq/Vietnam
1. Use of women and children as weapon delivery systems, or shields. (Former US Navy Seal Jocko Willink once described a reoccurring situation whereby his team would be clearing homes in a contested territory and the families would act "strange" until they realized that one of the "family members" was not actually a family member at all.)
2. There are no laws. They can deploy whatever weapons and tactics they wish against both our forces and civilians alike. We are bound by rules of engagement (which aren't as obvious or straightforward as they might sound) which severely handicaps our ability to just "go get the bad guys" even if we know exactly where they are.
3. Extremism. Whether it is religiously motivated or not, extremism leads to predictable results. It's easy for propaganda to spread and to vilify anyone, but it's much easier when there's an actual "enemy" you can see. That effect is multiplied further when we inevitably make mistakes.
War is hell. War should always be the absolute last resort. Unfortunately, the people who decide when we go to war aren't the people who actually have to put their lives and limbs on the line to fight it.
[EDIT] my point being that resistance against one's own government, which has turned evil & brutal but still has the support of its military, is not exactly a case in which I'd expect private small arms per se to turn the tide of battle, or have much effect at all compared with other factors, really.
Remote voting for senators is an easy fix, probably (hopefully) temporary with a very low risk of foreign interference.
Remote voting for the general public is fraught with complexity due to voting being the jurisdiction of the states, as well as rife with opportunity for foreign governments to mess with the results.
I mean, we literally saw hacking attempts from the intelligence services of Russia on election reporting servers in 2016. Enabling remote voting for the general public needs EXTREME vetting before going live.
Not doable for 2020.
Electronic voting? Absolutely not. But it's hard to have cyberwarfare campaigns against paper trails.
Sometimes technology introduces more potential problems.
How will we ever survive? /s
I moved up to Canada from ye olde US and their elections are so nice and simple. There are limits on the amount of time you can advertise as a campaign so no four year presidential campaigns up here. Additionally it's considered generally distasteful to excessively advertise during campaigns and, while you'll certainly get lots of phone calls from Liberals, Conservatives and the NDP - it's for a short window and then you're done.
The US runs it's elections like a game show because everything in America must be prime-time entertainment.
You might get downvoted for the snark but you're not wrong at all. I remain convinced that entertainment value is the most important qualifier for a President in modern times, and that probably goes back to JFK. Americans no longer trust government and don't believe in political leadership but they love celebrities and a good show.
It was a complete joke to have that many Dems on the stage, only joe and bernie turned out to be the only viable candidates out of that crowd once primaries started happening, and it became clear who actually had voters and who just had smoke and money for airtime on major networks. It's all for the ratings now, not to educate the public on policy. So shameful, but at least I can still just read the policy positions myself instead of watching a debate produced by Jerry Springer.
> They had things, levels of voting that if you’d ever agreed to it, you’d never have a Republican elected in this country again.
1. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/30/trump-republ...
How many? Is it more than the number of people who can't vote in person on election day due to work or inability to travel to voting places? If it's not, vote-by-mail still wins in aggregate. If it is, then it sounds like there's a serious domestic abuse issue in the broader society that needs to be addressed.
It may be relatively easy to commit a single act of mail voting fraud, but if it's not scalable, it doesn't really matter.
You mention election reporting servers being hacked, but that has nothing to do with mail-in vs. in-person voting.
Sounds like FUD to me.
Additionally the Senate does recognize vote assignment as legitimate so it'd be reasonable to support pre-registration of voting or the allowance of a voting window.
I agree that new Senate conventions could cover these cases.
I don't know, does it takes a lot of effort to look up the talking points of the people you disagree with? It implies your viewpoint was achieved without ever having come in contact with an alternative, which is concerning.
Because it's a transparent attempt to reduce the ability of some groups of people to vote. The right pushes for voter ID while simultaneously doing everything possible to reduce the availability of ID.
Put the Federal Election Commission in charge of voter ID, make the cards free and make it the mission of the FEC to track down and ensure every qualified citizen has one. Then I support voter ID.
https://www.phillyvoice.com/6abc-reports-it-found-dead-peopl...
Here is a non-comprehensive list that show a number of the know offenses. Keep in mind that most places don't do much monitoring for voter fraud (why else would they have thousands of dead people still listed).
> People with similar names — often a relative of the deceased voter — signed the poll book in the wrong spot, Schmidt said. In no case, he said, did the living voter then cast another vote under his or her actual name.
> Such mistakes most frequently occur when a deceased voter's name appears at the top or bottom of a poll book, Schmidt said.
When those problems manifest, we should deal with them. To try to address problems that don't actually exist is absurd overregulation and government overreach. It certainly is wasteful to expend resources on solving problems that don't need solving because they don't exist, isn't it?
Is there evidence of voter fraud by undocumented migrants that suggests we have a problem and should act?
I think this is one of the key problems with a hyper-conservative government.
If your default position is "don't change it" on every issue, then you have a very difficult time solving problems.
More liberal governments that frequently change the rules are like startups vs very large corporations. They are more agile and better able to quickly deal with problems as they arise. They are "responsive" in a way conservative government is not.
Look at recent statewide rent control measures in California. There was a lot of hand-wringing about what it could mean in this scenario or that scenario, but in the end the response is
> When those problems manifest, we should deal with them
Which I think is the sentiment of a people who really feel like they have a handle on their government and that it responds to their will.
Unfortunately, the results of this sometime goes over poorly with people outside the target audience. Such people are often reacting negatively to a framing they find problematic or otherwise objectionable. At times they prefer challenging the framing to advancing a particular position.
This is a very valuable thing to do! It's critically important to a functioning liberal democracy. It's just perhaps not always the most impactful thing to do in a given moment to advance the goal of swaying someone's position.
The problem with elections is a bit different. If the elections were manipulated either through people voting who shouldn't have, or foreign governments, do you think the people who benefited from that who are now in power will fix that issue? Probably not, especially when there is most likely close to 50% of the population who feel the person was their preferred candidate anyways.
Have you ever voted? Are you even registered to vote? Reading this makes me think you have not and have never... Registration requires verification, address, name, etc. You dont just show up and cast your vote.
The problem is in many rural and poor communities. Many people do not have a birth certificate, many do not have a DL and believe it or not, it costs money and requires significant travel for many people to get these things.
You must live in or near a large city, be from a wealthy family and have never been outside of your geo-bubble. Most of this country is rural. Some people have to travel 100's of miles to the nearest government agency. But you knew that, right?
[1]: https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2016/cb16-210...
Here you are, you've been 'punished' for a time the state has deemed appropriate. Now you're out. Very little support. No real integration plans, at least not formal ones. No oversight to see whether or not you fall into patterns of behavior from before. Undercut, actively, via loss of certain rights (gun ownership, voting as examples) in your attempts at integrating to society. And it's almost impossible to get anything but the most entry level, low paying jobs.
The US really has a hard on for kicking people when they make a mistake. It's almost a sport, it seems.
They're extremely brittle and bitter now that people are being celebrated as geniuses and business leaders for doing exactly what the felons were doing.
I live in a vote-by-mail state. You can only cast a ballot after you have registered. It is validated against your own registration. So at the time of voting, there is a hard limit on how much fraud is possible.
To have an undocumented immigrant casting a vote, they'd have to register to vote and not get caught. Except the state absolutely does check the voter registration rolls to ensure only qualified citizens are on them.
It is unnecessary to require ID every time you approach the ballot box. Invalid registrations are caught well before then.
Except the state absolutely does check the voter registration rolls to ensure only qualified citizens are on them.
They can't. There's no mechanism by which a state can take just a name and verify US citizenship for people not born in that state.Do you think that adding non-citizen voters will change the answer to the above?
If non-citizen voters made the government more responsive to the will of voters, do you think the will of non-citizen residents is significantly different than the will of citizen residents? How is it different?
Do you think will be inundated by immigrants who want sharia law? Is that where you're going with this? Do you think there could be enough immigrants to enact such a thing? Do you think that's possible given the basic freedoms guaranteed by the constitution?
You don't need a separate identification card. You can register to vote for free electronically or via mail, some state even allow in-person enrollment on the same day as the election.
In most states, the county maintains the voter registration. They should be removing people through a fair process as they become ineligible (die, move, felony, etc). They could track down most eligible people, but at what cost? As a citizen, it's not just your right to vote, but it is also your duty. The individual should apply, not be tracked down. This a how a democracy is supposed to work - citizens doing what's best for their country instead of waiting on the government, a government which is supposed to be a body of the people.
If you are concerned about the rights and freedoms of people without a photo ID being trampled, then you should be opposed to TSA since you need a photo ID to fly, or even ride a bus. You should be opposed to the ATF since you need a photo ID to buy a gun. You should be opposed to the DMV because you need a photo ID to drive. Even many states require the addition of photo ID when fishing to validate it against your fishing license. The fact is, you need a photo ID for literally anything you do. Your neighbor could even wrongly claim someone is breaking into your home and when the police show up, you have to prove you live there and are not a burglar. This lack of photo ID argue is soooooo old. Most states will issue an ID card good for 4-7 years for a very minimal cost, usually much less than even a driver's license.
Now, I'm not saying that political games aren't being played. Both sides play them on various issues, especially concerning timing, wrongfully expanding power, or botched implementation. But the trickery of the individuals involved should not be used as a defense against the underlying concept.
I can't remember the source but one study said there are about 3 million extra people registered in the US (people who are eligible - people actually registered). They may not be acting fraudulently, say if they moved from one state to another, or a different precinct in the state. The 2000 election was decided by 500 votes. Another study that I can't remember estimate that the same people without ID are, in general, the same people who are not registered to vote.
A few politicians with strong motivations to find any evidence of significant election fraud they can, and holding positions that give them the authority and, indeed, responsibility, to go looking for it have done so, and so far as I know they've all found little enough that I think it'd be fair to round what they've discovered down to "nothing". All evidence I'm aware of is that there's a vanishingly small amount of not-particularly-well-coordinated honest-to-god deliberate voter fraud, plus a somewhat larger but still small amount of accidental illegal voting (I gather this is somewhat easy to do unintentionally if one might claim residence in more than one state) and bad book-keeping or clerical errors. If deliberate voter fraud were a significant problem I would expect these efforts to have turned up far more, even if they didn't find the full scope of it.
> I can't remember the source but one study said there are about 3 million extra people registered in the US (people who are eligible - people actually registered). They may not be acting fraudulently, say if they moved from one state to another, or a different precinct in the state. The 2000 election was decided by 500 votes.
I take your broader point, but do note that the 3,000,000 -> 500 here is comparing apples and oranges, due to the way our Presidential elections work (it wasn't decided by 500 votes nationally)
Yes, 500 votes in a couple precincts of a state.
If it's not a big deal, then why does the right actively try to make getting valid photo ID more difficult? Things like closing all the DMV branches in poorer areas, or allowing them to be open just a few hours every couple weeks, etc.
The right makes this a big issue, not the left. If the right didn't try so hard to suppress people's ability to get ID, then I'd be tempted to think requiring ID for voting wasn't a bad idea.
So they shut down the DMV in the poorest area. Where's the next closest one?
As you can see in my other comments, I'm not a fan of political game playing. But using that as an defense against the underlying principle of validating voter identity is not a valid argument.
> Most states will issue an ID card good for 4-7 years for a very minimal cost
It's not just the cost of the license. There's also the opportunity cost of going to the DMV and potentially spending all day in line, which can mean missed work and lost wages, or childcare costs. And if you don't already have a driver's license and don't live someplace with good public transit, how are you going to get to the DMV in the first place?
> trickery of the individuals involved should not be used as a defense against the underlying concept.
Why not? If the intent is voter suppression rather than rooting out fraud (which hasn't been found to be widespread), then the crafting of the legislation would reflect that intent. A good voter ID bill would also mandate that the IDs are free and easy to obtain.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/12/12/16767426/...
https://www.vox.com/2020/4/15/21222084/kentucky-voter-id-cor...
Sure, there's opportunity cost to everything. Take the kid with you. What do you suggest we do about it? And not just on this issue, but filing taxes, marriage licenses, etc.
If you think we should hold the actions of a few bad people as parts of debates, then I don't think I should pay taxes because of misappropriation, or because criminals use them to travel.
Again, (because I don't think you got it) my position is that I don't see the issue with requiring photo ID because it is required for many other aspects of life, including other rights. The law should be congruent in that respect. If there are implemetion issues, then that is a different story. If you wanted to advocate the removal of ID requirements in other areas of life, then I'd be open to that too.
> Sure, there's opportunity cost to everything. What do you suggest we do about it?
When it comes to voter ID...reduce it? Make it as close to zero as possible? Is that really so crazy? If we care about free, fair, and secure elections, they're worth investing in, right?
> And not just on this issue, but filing taxes, marriage licenses, etc.
Ditto. Tax filing shouldn't cost hundreds of dollars and hours of work.
I was going for a more general approach to reducing opportunity cost. What about the opportunity cost of reducing this opportunity cost? It's a tradeoff for what to tackle. Should we spend effort and money here, or on education, etc. I'd rather they just modernization the process or address the tax situation.
Yep, thanks to turbotax etc lobbyists.
Another way of looking at it is as an additional, backdoor tax. And a regressive one at that, since it disproportionately affects the poor.
A day's wages is a pretty heavy tax.
Yep. And it's got a name, too. Poll tax. Unconstitutional.
Only in time and convenience, and even then, when it becomes egregious it could be a legal problem. The Supreme Court ruled almost a century ago that poll taxes on voter registration were unconstitutional.
If it were actually about fraud, then I think it is an easy problem to solve. But since it has nothing to do with fraud, I expect the debate to continue indefinitely.
In a democracy, few community services are as fundamental or essential as those that allow people to vote universally and securely. Because without that you don't have a real democracy.
> It should be seen as a service to their fellow citizens of not having to pay another government employee salary, benefits, and retirement.
Who said anything about hiring more full-time employees? What I was proposing is manageable with contractors, volunteers, and some already-existing employees working overtime on weekends (e.g. to catch the people at church or out shopping), or evenings. Surely many citizens would be happy to discharge their civic duties by volunteering to help their fellow citizens get voter ID?
Closing down DMVs depending on the district, reducing their working hours, excessive bureaucracy for non-drivers license IDs, charging excessive fees, etc.
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/chal...
Anecdotally, as someone who was living in poverty before I got into this line of work, I did not have a state-issued ID and did not have time to waste or even the inclination to get one (my state does not have voter id laws).
Sure many will go out of their way in order to acquire credentials, but much like email scams, the value of voter suppression is in the marginal success.
Lastly, the amount of real voter fraud (well below 10% last I checked) seems minimal vs the amount of people who don't have credentials (about 10% according to the above).
I will leave you with this quote:
"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer"
Isn't that the meaning of "justice"?
I'm honestly not going to check every country on the list, but it's blatantly false in South Africa where I've voted before. And I'm going to bet it's false for a lot of other countries on that list too, like India.
If you don't have a car, you're out of luck if the DMV is 10 miles away.
I never had the opportunity to find out
> Also, was this when you could still get a greyhound bus ticket without photo ID?
No clue
> Where you ever asked for ID when cashing or writing a check?
I don't really remember, didn't have much opportunity to cash checks anyway
Would you let me vote?
I got married and took my husband's name. I've got mix of paperwork during transition.
Would you let me vote?
I voted at the same polling location for 30 years. I've never driven a car. The only photo ID I have is my medical card from the VA.
Would you let me vote?
--
For the record, what The Left demands is modernizing our voter registration infrastructure, like every other mature democracy, mooting this entire debate.
Universal automatic voter registration, issue photo ID for all voters, proper audit log for all VRDBs.
Which would also be cheaper to admin and nearly error free.
My TLDR:
Ballots should be secret. It takes very specific procedures to protect voter privacy, especially with postal ballots.
Voter registration and participation (that you voted) are public records, by necessity, with some exceptions (judges, cops, victims, public figures).
Voter eligibility should be adjudicated as part of maintaining registration. The biggest flaws with our VRDBs would be fixed by simply adding an eligibility flag, with an audit log.
Currently, legally, VRDBs can only contain the most current record for eligible voters. No history. Leading to a lot of data quality problems. False negatives, false positives, purging, caging, and so forth.
I was hoping you had a system that could use something like public/private keys to verify the voter and the vote while remaining anonymous while providing furure result validation through your key.
I was an election integrity activist. I had some minor local victories. Like delaying the rollout of new gear (until 2009, a much less risky election) and prohibiting unique bar codes on our ballots (which were linked to voter id).
I've studied crypto voting proposals and other privacy preserving stuff like translucent databases and differential privacy. I'm just a simple bear, so I don't claim to be authoritative.
The core idea of the crypto systems I studied is to emulate the secure one-way hash of physical shuffle of the ballot box (Australian ballot) by inducing hash collisions. So there is no algorithm way to reverse the transformation.
Great in theory. Hard to implement in practice.
Over simplifying: you need simple (enough) ballots and large (enough) political jurisdictions (precincts) to ensure that each voter's ballot gets lost in the herd of ballots.
Otherwise straight forward brute force process of elimination (big data) allows trivial reidentification of each ballot's voter.
This is already a problem with our paper-based systems. Especially postal ballots. So us election integrity activists advocate very specific procedures to preserve voter privacy. Which are expensive and onerous, so rarely done.
For future, I will remain open minded about crypto voting systems. But it'll always remain a tough sell.
How this relates back to voter registration and eligibility? I don't know. Identity and authentication is very hard. My very best guess, per the translucent database strategies, is that once we issue everyone unique identifiers, such as Real ID, then we'll be able to technically unlock a lot of privacy protections.
Until then, because we have to link identifiers across heterogenous systems, we have to store PII as cleartext. Which defeats the purpose.
What people want is sadly irrelevant as long as they keep voting blindly for the same people.
Can't even have private healthcare. Must use the same systems that the general population has access to.
The same issue arises whenever folks get antsy about Senatorial pay rates - sure paying them little feels nice but, as has been demonstrated repeatedly in developing nations, lower direct payment leads to more indirect payment through corruption.
I think you're underestimating how against this the GOP was before COVID-19. If you're hearing more about it, it's likely just because the idea is gaining traction.
Furthermore, part of getting everyone colocated with the apparata of government is to ensure unfettered access to staffers/resources.
The Library of Congress isn't just there for decoration you know. It is actually there to be utilized.
Furthermore, there is the potential for breach of highly sensitive state information if you go full telepresence.
This really isn't something to approach lightly.
Would it be nice if everyone could just agree and move along? Yes, yes it would. Unfortunately, supermajorities are the realm of Walgreens advertising, and I still don't accept that there should not be mechanisms through which delay can be enforced.
Then again, I'm not terribly well read up on legislative procedure either, so I may be pulling postulates out of my arse. If anyone is better versed in it, and wouldn't mind some explanation, I'd be quite interested.
Then again, I could just read the damned rules. Is it strictly Robert's Rules of Order proper, or some specialized set of procedures?
There are some closed door hearings with sensitive information, where such security precautions would be needed, but that’s no excuse for not at least restarting the hearings and actions that would have been public before.
Too few people today have ever been in a meeting conducted under Roberts Rules of Order. So few organizations today are run by their members. Roberts Rules of Order are for a meeting which has the power to decide something - it's for when the result is a vote and a decision to act.
For the most part the majority party seems to call the shots and are all aligned in effort, making any debates a waste of time. Until the partisan politics stop and we have parties reaching across the aisle again, that is.
Yes, is this basically what C-SPAN serves as? The hours of Senators reading speeches, is that the "deliberation"? Serious question. I never thought of the Senate as a "deliberative body", not that it shouldn't be.
Meanwhile, behind closed doors, lawmakers are horse trading and calling in favors to get their pet projects passed.
This is pretty much how Congress has worked for the past 100 years or so.
Never mind that the “debate” on the floor is just them making speeches to to the TV camera, something they could just as easily do from home - and often do by calling into cable news or major broadcast networks. Often the speeches they are making are to a nearly empty chamber as well - you’re not seeing actual debate in most cases, the other side isn’t there listening and considering the arguments.
At least with the old system the committees were far more important than their members and they drove policy across Congress as a whole, not all direction is from the party into Congress
> Now, mail ballots — they cheat. Okay? People cheat. Mail ballots are a very dangerous thing for this country, because they’re cheaters. They go and collect them. They’re fraudulent in many cases.
- President Trump
If everyone votes, Republicans would lose in a landslide. They understand this, which is why gerrymandering is as pervasive as it is (democrats also do it, to a far, far lesser extent.) Trump himself said that if we allowed vote by mail, "you’d never have a Republican elected in this country again." (which is interesting because it's true (not literally, but spiritually) and also because you're not supposed to admit that.)
The Republican party is notable for its sheer nihilism. They care entirely about power, which, at the end of the day, is what politics is about. Democrats tend to forget that you need to win elections to pass things. Being "right" (for their definition) is almost irrelevant.
None of this is a comment on who is right or wrong or whatever[1]. Politics is fascinating to watch in its own right.
[1]: vs. something to the effect of "fuck trump and anyone who stands with him", for example.
In the privacy of one's home, outside a controlled voting booth, the problem is exacerbated, counterintuitively. A voter at home or in another uncontrolled setting could follow instructions for how to vote and then use a camera, or witnesses who are in on the scheme, to prove that they had voted a certain way, at the behest of others. In a traditional voting booth situation, where nobody else can see or verify how you voted, this kind of manipulation is not so easy to do on a mass scale.
At what level would you consider the scale sufficient for these effects to appear?
EDIT: parent has been edited since I posted to say "Three of those four state are..." rather than "Four states that are..."
Half of Colorado's Congressional delegation is Republican and Clinton won the state in 2016 only by a bare plurality (48% to 43%).
(UT of course is quite solidly Republican.)
To my sibling comment - "reliably blue" lol. Only in the last 3 presidential elections, and the House & Senate are split evenly.
>In 2014 Colorado (72 percent) and Oregon (71 percent) led the nation in voter turnout of active registered voters – both states 20+ points above the national average of 48%
Yet still doesn't seem to be happening.
source: https://www.nonprofitvote.org/get-ballot-home-2-weeks-electi...
I'd very much expect so, if it is hard to know and that's pretty much the problem. So perhaps they have.
Has this ever been an actual problem with actual remote voting?
Could someone do this at scale _without detection_? No.
1) You fill out the ballot, there is no identifying information on the ballot.
2) You put the ballot into a privacy sleeve, and then put the ballot into the envelope.
3) You seal and sign the envelope; then put it in the mailbox.
4) Your mail carrier takes the envelope and delivers it to the election commission.
5) The sealed envelopes are examined in person during the counting process to check that the signature is valid. (3rd parties can observe the counting process to make sure procedures are being followed)
6) The ballot in the privacy sleeve are removed from the envelope and placed in a separate box.
7) Boxes of ballots are counted by separate poll workers.
(If by "secret ballot" you mean people can sell their vote, mailed ballots can be cancelled with a "cancellation form". You can then request a new ballot by mail, or vote in person.)
I don’t see any part of that process that would stop me if I told my employees “I’ll give you $100 if you show me your ballot then send it right away the day before the election”.
* The ballots are sent to your home, not your workplace.
* Employers can ask for a picture of an in-person ballot.
Buying votes is illegal, which dissuades most people from buying votes. Your employees would turn you in, especially since people have very strong feeling about elections due to partisanship.
If you vote the day before Election Day and then submit a cancellation form an hour later, will you be able to submit another vote or will the system take too long to process your cancellation?
That said, I still think that you're unlikely to have people buying votes. The risk to the employer is going to be higher than the reward because every vote you buy is a potential snitch who could send you to jail. The more likely scenario for swaying votes is an emotionally manipulative/controlling partner.
[0] https://www.sos.wa.gov/elections/voters/
[1] https://www.kitsapsun.com/story/news/2020/03/03/washington-s...
I'm living in a household with three roommates, unrelated to me. Maybe they're not granted the right to vote.
The mail-in ballot arrives and is completed by one other than myself, without my knowledge.
How do you prevent this?
Signing the envelope that you return the ballot in would further de-anonymize the vote.
I'm asking not out of snarkiness but because I don't know.
This ballot is then filled in and anonymously submitted into whatever box or diebold machine.
With mail-in, a signature is attached to the ballot, which is a different situation. I'm missing something.
- The signature on on the envelope, not the ballot. You put your ballot into a privacy sleeve and then into an envelope. You seal the envelope, sign the envelope, and then mail it.
-- The signature has to match (as judged by a human). If it doesn't, they contact you for additional verification.
-- The ballots are separated from the signed envelopes and put in a separate bin before they are counted. The counting process has election observers (just like all states do) so I'm sure this procedure is properly followed.
- Ballots are supposed to arrive 2 weeks before the election. If you don't get your ballot, you fill out a "vote cancellation form" and they invalidate your missing ballot: https://www.sos.wa.gov/elections/voters/
-- This prevents other people from voting for you, but it does require attention on your part.
- Additionally, ballots are assigned a random ID with a detachable QR code. The ID is specific to the individual paper ballot, not the voter. Once ballots are opened and counted, this ID will published online so that you can make sure the paper ballot you filled out was counted.
-- This doesn't prevent anything, but it does let us know if someone is dumping/replacing ballots. It builds confidence that your vote is actually counted.
The process is fragile and fragmented at best.
> Can I vote in-person?
> Each county opens a voting center prior to each primary, special election, and general election. Each voting center is open during business hours during the voting period, which begins eighteen days before, and ends at 8:00 p.m. on the day of, the primary, special election, or general election.
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_emergencies_i...
What's to stop dead senators from voting? Or senators from voting twice? This may even make it possible for former felons in the senate to vote!
It's only a problem for the people who don't get it. And judging from the point total on my post, the vast majority of people got it.
(Edit, just for clarity, /s on the above statement)
Hacking a senate vote wouldn't be much use in the long run.
It would've been corrected in minutes. McCain knew he was the deciding vote and the media firesform would've alerted him to an incorrect vote almost immediately.
All of these people have large teams monitoring their coverage and managing their PR. A voting mistake would be caught.
Registry of votes seems easy enough. If there's ever a question or a surprising vote, ask again. As-is, senators regularly vote by means of hand-waving and thumbs up/down gestures, so it's not like things are always super-formal even before this change.
How does debate work? How is a quorum decided? How long will members have to vote? How are their votes authenticated? etc.
Done wrong, votes in Congress could be perceived as sneaky and illegitimate, and legitimacy is critical. Members take advantage of procedural details all the time. When procedures are new or ill-defined, there are going to be lots of loopholes.
Roberts rules with a chairperson (current procedure) seems to translate nicely to a moderated web cast
> How is a quorum decided?
Is there a reason why taking roll by video and voice doesn't work in a video conference any less than it does in person?
> How long will members have to vote?
We don't have to change this with video conference software either
> How are their votes authenticated?
With the exception of deep fakes, video and voice confirmation.
Surely, in a world where each representative could feasible allocate fiber installation to their house, they can whitelist IPs; if not much cheaper options such as VPNs and secure factors.
> Congress could be perceived as sneaky and illegitimate, and legitimacy is critical
Why wouldn't (non classified) meetings be broadcast on CSpan? (Requiring HD Video and HD Voice seems like a no brainer for transparency)
Each House may determine
the Rules of its Proceedings, ...
It really is up to the Senate how to do this. No one will (should) think less or more of the Senate if they do this.In general, I think these remote voting proposals should include a time limitation. That there is some "trigger" when they take effect, and they need re-authorization every 30 days until the incident is over.
If you set up a system where Senators can live at home, Zoom in to cast a vote, and otherwise not engage with other Senators, it doesn't really fulfill the "coming together and hashing things out" aspect of congress. It's a bunch of polarized Senators staying polarized, now without even human contact.
(and it's fair to say "we're basically there already", but it's also fair to say "but we're not quite there, and we should preserve and foster whatever bipartisan interaction we have". I just don't think it's a no-brainer.)
Does voting matter any more?
It's been nice being in states where people voted for candidates that legalized marijuana. Does a candidate need to be an exact spitting image of me and my values to be worth voting for?
As long as we have choose-one voting, it will devolve to two dominant parties that do not need to care about most voters' interests.
I'm partial to ranked choice voting for most local elections and House elections, because you can do some interesting things with proportional representation.
[1] http://zesty.ca/voting/sim/
[2] https://www.fairvote.org/fair_rep_in_congress#what_does_the_...
The best research out there indicates STAR as the best, and it works best by that simulation you describe as well.
Here's some references:
The exact same approach as your first link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4FXLQoLDBA
https://electionscience.github.io/vse-sim/VSE/
https://paretoman.github.io/ballot/newer.html
The only Ranked Choice approach anyone is promoting is Instant Runoff which discards preference votes relatively arbitrarily. Your second choice vote never counts if they happen to get eliminated in an earlier round than your first choice.
If you have trouble following how IRV unfairly counts votes and even leads to bad outcomes, this simple demonstration may help make it clear: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q10TsLw_3YI
Now, there are some options like Ranked Pairs that are at least arguably okay, but that's far more complex to understand and to tabulate and nobody is actually promoting it in real use.