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Comment by samizdis | Hacker News Reader

This is the first time that I've read about health/care workers being shunned and stigmatised, but I can see how it can happen. I can't imagine that this is a purely Japanese phenomenon, though. Anyone from anywhere outside of Japan able to point to similar media reports?

Edited to add: thanks for the posters below who pointed me at relevant articles concerning workers similarly stigmatised elsewhere. Shameful and depressing are words that spring easily to mind :-(

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There are enough reports from the US about physicians and nurses getting evicted because tenants are getting concerned about coronavirus spreading in the building.

Daily Beast isn't a real newspaper of record, but I've seen similar articles in reputable papers: https://www.thedailybeast.com/coronavirus-nurses-face-evicti...

The New York Times had a similar story: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/03/nyregion/co-op-board-coro...

The Doctor Came to Save Lives. The Co-op Board Told Him to Get Lost.

> There are enough reports from the US about physicians and nurses getting evicted because tenants are getting concerned about coronavirus spreading in the building.

To be fair this is not specific to the US e.g. in france at least one nurse was harassed into leaving (heating and hot water shut off) by their landlords, in belgium one was expelled by their co-tenants, in germany one got thrown out of a supermarket, in australia a doctor got evicted, healthcare workers got assaulted in india, …

That does seem like a valid concern.

Not sure what a solution might be.

How is that a valid concern? The only way the virus could spread would be through the building door, and maybe elevator buttons. It's a matter of cleaning those regularly and washing your hands when you get home. It's not rocket science.

The virus is airborne and lasts for hours floating in the air, aside from surfaces. Its not just a matter of washing up.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/18/coronavirus-lives-for-hours-...

It can last. It's fairly unlikely especially if people are considerate with minimum precautions.

E.g. If one sneezes uncovered into air with the right humidity, etc. it COULD survive for a while airborne. That's not to say merely by breathing a person's usual exhalations they could get it.

The virus is transmitted through droplets, or little bits of liquid, mostly through sneezing or coughing, Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove, head of WHO’s emerging diseases and zoonosis unit, told reporters during a virtual news conference on Monday. “When you do an aerosol-generating procedure like in a medical care facility, you have the possibility to what we call aerosolize these particles, which means they can stay in the air a little bit longer.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/18/coronavirus-lives-for-hours-...

I often and involuntarily share an elevator with other people in my building.

You are aware that the virus spreads primarily through air?

Droplets of air allow for transmission

The solution is to kick out the tenants/landlords who are concerned. Then they won't have to live near a medical worker, and everyone is happy.

Those medical workers have as much right to their place of shelter as anyone else.

This is a despicable form of NIMBYism. The people complaining expect medical professionals to save them, but don't want to treat them as equals.

> The solution is to kick out the tenants/landlords who are concerned

I was going to mention something about housing co-op politics, but it seems that NYC co-ops are a unique beast: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/09011...

Either way, NYC style or regular co-ops, the politics can get pretty nasty so I'm not surprised at all...

There are similar stories in France, but it's mostly hearsay.

And with some "journalists" relying on twitter to write their articles, it gets harder to distinct hearsay from real news.

There was a report in France 2 and some pictures of papers the "friendly neighbors" put on nurses' appartment doors asking them to move out.

I just had a quick look on Google News, some stories seem legit:

In Montpellier, owners shutting down hot water and heating to force a nurse to move out:

https://www.la-croix.com/Sciences-et-ethique/Sante/Coronavir...

In Marseille, neighbors left an anonymous note asking to 2 sisters working as nurse and firefighter to leave the residence:

https://www.ouest-france.fr/sante/virus/coronavirus/coronavi...

An emergency room doctor in Miami has temporarily lost custody of her 4-year-old daughter while she treats patients during the coronavirus pandemic.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/13/us/custody-coronavirus-er-doc...

So people risk their lives for others ... and not get credit, but stigmatised? Glorious.

Here in germany I have not seen it, or heard of it and rather support, but my neighbours for example would be the type, to do this as well. Fear brings out ugly sides in humans.

Well, take it with a grain of salt, but there has been at least one article about a nurse in a german village, which got thrown out of a supermarket after an acquaintance told 'em that this person works in a hospital where italian COVID-19-patients are treated:

https://www.merkur.de/leben/karriere/angst-coronavirus-krank...

Well, it would not surprise me. I do not have any illusions about my fellow countrymen having better morals or something.

And I can understand the fear, as logically, yes, a health worker has a increased risk of infection and spreading. But it is such small minded thinking, of putting extra stress on the very people you expect to take care of you, when you finally get sick, that makes me despise those people.

So yes, everyone around a health worker need to take extra care. And if the possibility exist, for the health workers to live seperately for the crisis time, why not. If compensated adequately. But if it is not possible - and you cannot expect a mother to seperate from their family, then just make the best out of it and don't forget you are all in this together.

In Egypt [0] villagers blocked the burial of a doctor who died of coronavirus. [0]: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-52272762

Here is an article about stuff like that in India: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-13/doctors-c...

India was very quick in passing an ordinance imposing harsh penalties on attacking healthcare workers though.

There is one case in Australia that is similar, although also more personal https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-22/coronavirus-fears-doc...

My gf in Colombia said that healthcare workers are being told by certain groups not to go to the hospital or they will be killed. They are writing that stuff outside their doors and buildings.

What do these "groups" hope to achieve by crippling the healthcare system? Do they want to keep Coronavirus off their turf by driving healthcare workers of their turf or something else? These people are normally rational. Some piece of context is missing.

Fear and lack of knowledge breeds irrationality.

On the other hand, there are reports of Coronavirus spreading through a building through the air conditioning, and it's a fact that presymptomatic people can be infectious, consequently you really may not wish to live in the same building as an emergency physician or nurse these days. Their work still deserves recognition, but meanwhile quarantine on the hospital grounds might be a wise move.

> These people are normally rational.

I doubt that. Crises surface suppressed flaws (and strengths), not usually create new ones.

People who would threaten anyone with "you will be killed" for anything, got there before the crisis.

that's intense.

here in medellin there are several tenants in our building (estrato 4, so not uber wealthy) begging the health care workers that do live here to temporarily live elsewhere or stop working, mostly bc there are a lot of elderly people that live here and a single unavoidable set of stairs that everyone has to use.

Same stigmatization happened for people from Fukushima. People were treated like pariah even when radiation is not infectious.

A doctor friend in the UK had her flatmates ask her to move out because of the risk she brought to the house. It was devastating to her.

Unfortunately, I do not have an English source but a nurse was thrown out of a supermarket in Germany as well [1].

[1] https://www.zeit.de/arbeit/2020-04/intensivpflege-coronaviru...

I saw a CNN story about medical professionals in Mexico being physically attacked: https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/23/world/mexico-coronavirus-atta...

Someone attempted to evict a paramedic in the UK.

Not just attempted. The poor guy was evicted:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/22/nhs-paramedic-...

The same also happened to a doctor in the UK:

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-nhs-doctor-evicted-fr...

If the world were just, the landlady should lose the property she evicted him from. This should assuage the her fears about her tenant spreading COVID.

reports of some health care workers being attacked with bleach in Mexico, https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-23/hold-the-...

it's evidence that over-hyping the pandemic and stoking fears have real negative consequences. every single day there are literally thouasands of stories about how terrible and terrifying this disease is without any attempt at grounding these stories in an appropriate context (like how bad it is compared to the flu, while ignoring/defying the political connotations therein).

this isn't meant to be anti-media by any measure; but we need to hold media accountable so that it can modulate future coverage appropriately.

> like how bad it is compared to the flu, while ignoring/defying the political connotations therein

What political connotations?

In the public discourse (or at least in American public discourse), any comparison between the coronavirus and the flu has come to be seen as a signal for a package of controversial ideas. The coronavirus isn't that bad, lockdowns were designed by fear-mongering globalists, etc.

in addition to what @SpicyLemonZest noted, the political left in the US (and its associated media) is pushing hard on the idea that this pandemic is the worst thing to happen in 100 years, while the political right (and its associated media) is trying to brush it off as nothing, including saying it's no worse than the flu. the obvious prize that hangs in the balance is this year's elections.

neither of those positions are reasonable, and neither will bring understanding and meaningful methods for moving forward. politics on both sides are adding so much noise that reasonable voices are getting drowned out.

this pandemic is trending toward being about 3x worse than the yearly flu. maybe it's really 5x, but it's unlikely 10x and certainly not 100x as the most panicked are fomenting over. it's also not likely less than 2x, so it's not "no worse than the flu".

that's real information that can shape our policy decisions going forward, rather than the political.

in Myanmar, there have been reports where landlords evict the medical workers(doctors/nurses) because they fear the virus.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/coronavirus-nurses-face-evicti...

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