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Comment by jedberg | Hacker News Reader

If they have a badge and gun demand that they slip the warrant under the door first. Then call the watch commander to verify it.

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There's a lot that go wrong with this approach, and the upside is pretty obviously dwarfed by the (small to minuscule, depending on many many factors) chance of getting murdered while puffing about your rights. Whose front door has a gap underneath it, anyway?

Assuming they knock and announce they have a warrant as opposed to knocking the door down, you open the door and they start coming in immediately. You can read the warrant, they'll likely shove it in your face. You should be on the phone to an attorney or the local bar association before the last officer in past the threshold, anyway.

I'm pretty shocked an attorney would suggest doing something that can very likely be construed as stalling for time when tensions are likely pretty high.

You're aware that -- regardless of what you might have seen on TV or the movies -- they don't actually have to present a physical warrant, right?

Nor do they have to allow you time to call a "watch commander to verify it".

What is likely, however, is that you're gonna be shopping for a new front door if you don't open up by about the second knock -- if they give you that long.

Do they just wait around to let you take your time to go back and call to verify?

I don't know, never been served a search warrant.

Obviously this isn't legal advice, but it's what defense lawyer friends have suggested if it ever comes up.

I think that popular video about "never talk to cops" mentions something like it too?

I assume if they don't wait, it helps your court case. They could always go with the "probable cause" argument, but again this can help your case if you can prove they didn't have actual cause.

I'm less worried about the court case and more worried about what can immediately go wrong if you look like you're stalling.

> ... this can help your case if you can prove they didn't have actual cause.

Pro-tip: if they're at your door with a warrant, they have probable cause.

Yeah but if they're robbers with a fake badge and gun, how will I know? At least when they barge in I'll already be on the phone with the cops.

Your threat model is imaginary, if they are robbers posing as cops, they wouldn't knock and wait patiently, they'd just serve you a fake "no knock warrant" (kick open your door and bust in with flash bang grenades).

I'm sorry, this comment is not necessarily a reply to you directly but to the thread in general--are we talking about the real world or some fictional TV show? Genuine question, is this something a "normal" HN reader should be worried about? Is there any evidence of such incidents happening ("kick open your door and bust in with flash bang grenades")?

I see no reason why a robber posing as a cop would want to draw more attention to themselves than necessary.

Could just be at the wrong door.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2010/09/aiyana-stanley-...

My understanding is a valid warrant (which as someone else mentioned does not have to be a physical piece of paper) grants them immediate access and they don't have to wait to verify. If you don't open the door, it will be opened for you by battering ram - demanding you open it is more of a courtesy.

Think about it: say someone has a bunch of drugs, you wouldn't want to give them time to start flushing it down the toilet while they call up and verify the warrant is valid. You kick the door in, arrest them, and secure the scene for forensics and evidence collection.

I assumed something along those lines, but I think they have to knock unless there's a no-knock warrant? I just don't expect they'll be amused if you tell them to hang on for a few minutes while you "verify" the warrant.

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