This might be a good time when a representative democracy, composed of people who are willing to listen to experts and make the hard, unpopular, decisions, would be the best choice.
This might be a good time when a representative democracy, composed of people who are willing to listen to experts and make the hard, unpopular, decisions, would be the best choice.
Wasn't there an article here yesterday about the San Francisco anti-mask league [0] from 1918? I don't think misinformation and people acting incorrectly is something new.
0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Mask_League_of_San_Franci...
Every person imagines they are better informed than those they disagree with, especially when it comes to politics.
There are exceptions to this rule. For example, I am better informed than those who disagree with me.
No, a large fraction of citizens who think they are better informed have moved to coastal cities. Most of them are mistaken. If they are so well informed, why are the coastal cities they live in the places with the highest per capita crime rates and the highest cost of living?
maybe so, but if you assume this to be true, it's guaranteed.
what I refuse to accept is that the notion of individual responsibility and reasoned debate is over forever. maybe this is naive, but I do believe that it's more effective to convince people they should work towards a goal than to impose rules by force. I will concede that the US is missing many of the prerequisites to make this realistic. people not being able to reason about exponential growth is a failure of the education system, not an intrinsic limitation of the human mind. people distrust information/directions from the government because it has repeatedly shown itself to be untrustworthy. people are unwilling to sacrifice months of income because they were barely getting by before.
I think it is a cultural failure, not an educational failure. Education is available, but people, both children and adults, make excuses like "when will I ever need mathematics in real life?"... [Answer: when your life depends on it]
There is, or has been, a general lack of respect and inherent laziness toward intellectual pursuits. This is especially apparent when viewing the antagonism between science and politics.
For one, test scores and reading levels indicate the average Swede is far better educated than the average American.
Second, Sweden's media industry doesn't have competing private 24 hour cable news conglomerates fighting over eyeballs. In Europe, government financed media is more common, and thus there is not the same private incentives to drive fear and anger.
Does Sweden has issues with misinformation? Of course (mostly around fear of immigrants). But they don't have anywhere near the problem we have in the US with misinformation.
https://www.dinsakerhet.se/siteassets/dinsakerhet.se/broschy...
Maybe a "mental herd immunity" against viral propaganda is a necessary first step to develop a biological herd immunity ;)
Interviewer: "But can you understand his concern [about his risk due to his health conditions]?"
Persson: "No, I do not. He's 50 years old. There is no risk to him. He doesn't get sick of this."
Interviewer: "But do you know that even younger people get sick and die of corona?"
Persson: "There is no reason to be worried. It's a hysteria. It is the same as with the climate. It is not possible to change. We cannot influence it politically."
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/varmland/storforspolitiker...
And yet, somewhat bizarrely, Sweden has been latched onto as the model for a sane response to the virus amongst many conservative circles. I will hold my breath as they fail to take action against a disease with 10 times the IFR of the flu and many fold the transmissibility, with the CDC now reporting an r0 of 3.8–8.9 in a 95% CI.
Of course the US right tries to score points from the lack of a hard lockdown here. But I wonder how well that would have worked without universal healthcare and salaries partly (80%?) paid by government for the time being.
The problem is not misinformation. The problem is whether a country is really willing to enforce a law that says every citizen has a positive responsibility to not infect others.
If you really enforce that law, then anyone who gets COVID-19 because they didn't take reasonable precautions, and then infects someone else, is legally liable for damages. They could be sued for all of the health care costs of anyone they infect. They could be sued for wrongful death if someone they infect dies. Depending on the circumstances and the details of the statute, they could be liable to criminal charges.
That's what "individual responsibility" means--holding individuals responsible, legally, when they harm others. And in a legal environment like that, misinformation isn't a problem, because people who act on misinformation end up harming others and being held responsible, and since nobody wants to be in that position, everyone learns, in their own self-interest, to not act on misinformation. Which in turn means that information sources that continually propagate misinformation die because nobody listens to them. And information sources that can reliably report accurate information thrive, and have an incentive to continue reporting accurate information.
> This might be a good time when a representative democracy, composed of people who are willing to listen to experts and make the hard, unpopular, decisions, would be the best choice.
Representative democracy will only be composed of such people if people have a strong incentive to act on accurate information and to not act on misinformation. Which, as you yourself point out, does not describe societies today.
There's always the next election. It's hard to do unpopular things if you don't expect them eventually to become popular. E.g. lockdowns may be unpopular now, but if crisis can be avoided, it wouldn't hurt your election results. There is an exception though; if countries like Sweden don't have strict measures and still thrive, a lot of people will see that as a failure of your government.
That is a very human perception failure and one that all politics and tribal psychology use. "Others are more dangerous than they are because they are other.and we say they are" not because they have an actual threat.
The reality is that these are incredibly small numbers but the hype about them is real.
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/494028-poll-more-th...
So basically, you want a return to some form of Aristocracy?
How many Senators and Congresspeople (and MPs in the UK) aren't multi-millionaires?
* Masks don't work, and you're too stupid to wear one anyways (WHO and US Surgeon General)
* There is no human to human transmission (WHO)
* The fact that there is a biolab in the exact area where the virus started spreading from is just a wild coincidence you racist (media Cathedral)
I have a hard time blaming people for going down conspiracy theory rabbit holes about Gates when all the people who should be setting us straight have no credibility.
>All available evidence suggests the virus has an animal origin and is not manipulated or constructed in a lab or somewhere else,” WHO spokeswoman Fadela Chaib told a Geneva news briefing. “It is probable, likely, that the virus is of animal origin.
What the heck does that mean, exactly? It sounds like MAYBE it suggests the virus' genome was not explicitly manipulated with CRISPR. Okay. Was the lab growing virus in human cadaver tissue? Was the lab putting selective pressure on the virus in bats? Was the lab even studying the virus which had been discovered totally as-is in the wild?
Make no mistake. There has been no blanket denial of the lab's involvement with the virus. Only carefully worded PR responses and calling you racist for asking questions.
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid-19-not... https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200317175442.h...
You do understand that the scientific method is couched entirely in current best understanding, right? We assume the theory of gravity is how gravity works up and can assume it's probably true until a better theory comes up. You'll notice they didn't mention the animal - can we then safely assume it's a moose flu? That's even better supported as they did confirm in the affirmative it was an animal.
And the other lies you posted were said with 100% certainty - how is the use of probable more evidence of a lie?
Neither of your articles provides a blanket denial that the lab was involved in research that included the virus. It only makes some very narrow denials in non-scientific language.
But you do seem to be arguing for the theory as well.
You respond with B, a tiny subset of A.
I ask you for the rest of A.
Rather than saying something even as innocuous as "I don't know" you call me a racist.
In the most technical sense you might not be lying about B. But you're definitely being dishonest with the presumptive accusation of racism. And you're definitely using deceptive language to avoid answering the question. And you've definitely destroyed your credibility on a scale equal to "Masks don't work."
The conspiracy is by the media Cathedral for suggesting racism is the source of the demand for answers. I have no idea where the virus came from. But we're definitely not getting accurate info in this area.
You are focused on people questioning the origin of the virus as a conspiracy. I'm focused on the lies/credibility of the people in charge.
It doesn't matter where the virus came from. The supposedly credible people haven't been answering honestly. First they gave very narrow responses, then they accused people of being racist for calling them out on the narrow, useless response.
And you're grouping all these groups mistakes together when that's not really fair to the different groups.
The Surgeon General makes two claims in this single tweet. The first is that masks won't protect YOU from catching the virus. The second is that it will protect healthcare workers.
Reading that first claim as anything but a lie intended to manage your behavior is generous beyond credulity. He told you it was a lie in his second claim. He couldn't even separate these claims into two tweets, much less some period of time when new scientific information might have been discovered.
It's very reasonable to suggest that a trained professional with years of experience in dealing with contamination will have better results from PPE than an average person. But that's a wildly different claim than masks do not offer the general public any protection.
My belief is they are deliberately lying because they are managing you rather than informing you. The lie is to encourage compliance on turning over masks to the medical professionals. But even if I'm as generous as possible about their intent, it still has destroyed their credibility.