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jarin

It's interesting that each major web language seems to have paired off with a different VCS:

- Python + Hg

- Ruby + Git

- PHP + ...SVN?

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PHP + ...SVN?

Gotta say, they deserve each other.

and OpenCOBOL uses CVS

http://www.opencobol.org/ (http://sourceforge.net/projects/open-cobol/develop)

maybe a language older than that still uses RCS

The ERP where I work wraps RCS with a bunch of scripts. It's used for source control (of course) but also schema migrations, source generation, and a million other things

I've checked files out that were last modified before I was born.

Because they both have widespread adoption?

Because both are commonly perceived as a step backwards from the current state of the art, but more importantly because it's good sport to make cheap jabs at both of them :P

You know, comments like that disparage by implication anyone who finds value in PHP or SVN. That's a big chunk of the development community. It tears people apart rather than bringing them together. Maybe you should redirect your energy from snark and criticism toward something more constructive.

You can simultaneously find value in something, and have a sense of humour about that something's shortcomings. Learning to laugh at ourselves is probably the greatest thing humanity could do to further peace and happiness.

That's a fair point, when it applies. But I perceive this joke as coming more often from a sense of superiority and an emotionally ill-conceived attempt to improve others by insulting them.

Or perhaps it comes out of pent up frustration at having to use them myself in work environments ;)

You know, comments like that disparage by implication anyone who finds value in PHP or SVN.

Maybe if we disparage them enough they'll switch to a real programming language and version control tool.

PHP developers can probably take comfort in the fact that much like Java, Perl, C, Snooki, and others, even though PHP is long past its "sexy" stage, it's well into its "many billion-dollar companies are built on this" stage.

SVN users, well, they probably just don't know any better. :)

If "real programming language" advocates spent more time creating equivalient/better alternatives to projects like Drupal or Wordpress in their preferred environments, they'd advance their goals much more than any HN/Proggit comment could.

Real programming language as in a language that powers a large chunk of the most visited web sites on the internet?

I don't do any PHP myself and my few forays into it didn't leave me impressed but I don't see how you can disparage it as not a "real language".

Why is PHP not a "real" programming language? Why is subversion not a "real" version control tool?

Yes, I've programmed in PHP and know it has some downsides, and that it has some big warts that are ugly, but it is a real programming language. Real projects are built with PHP.

Now I understand the frustration with Subversion, but it still is a version control system that is used in the real world. Would I love it if everyone decided to move away from SVN and onto something more capable like Git or Mercurial, yes, but that doesn't mean we have to belittle people who are using those tools.

PHP is the Walmart of languages, everyone uses it because everyone uses it, but nobody really has anything _good_ to say about it.

I wasn't going to jump into this discussion but that isn't very fair. I don't use PHP myself and am not a fan of it but here are some reasons why I think it is popular:

1) It's very easy to get started with, even if you're not a great programmer (or even if you have never programmed before). Just start with pure HTML and then add a few <?php> tags. 2) Lots of PHP hosting available, much of it free. 3) Loads of frameworks and libraries available.

I'm sure a PHP fan could come up with a few more.

2 and 3 are not really advantages for PHP, as the same can be said for most any language.

I think #1 is the big reason that PHP is as popular as it is, but that "feature" has a funny smell among programmers who don't like to mix languages.

Oh, geez. Lighten up.

- Tcl + Fossil http://code.activestate.com/lists/tcl-core/10108/ :-)

That is an excellent choice for them. Dr. Hipp (author of SQLite) is the author of Fossil and a big Tcl fan. Tcl is maintained by a small core team of developers. Just an overall good fit for them.

The C Ruby implementation is actually on subversion with an official git mirror. Granted, most Ruby projects are hosted using git repositories these days.

There is a reason Python is paired with Mercurial.

Hg is written in Python. As for why Mercurial was chosen over Bazaar, it came down to popularity. As the core developer survey shows, hg was preferred over bzr.

That's not really the reason, and I believe it's even stated in the PEP.

yeah, http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0374/

- Haskell (at least GHC) + Darcs

A permanent switch to Git for GHC and all associated repositories is planned for March 15.

Perl also uses Git.

And Go uses mercurial.

An explanation for that might be that Go, being a Google Project, is hosted on Google Code, where Mercurial is the only supported DVCS.

http://googlecode.blogspot.com/2009/04/mercurial-support-for... http://code.google.com/p/support/wiki/DVCSAnalysis

So nobody is using Monotone?

- .NET + VSS?

TFS now (Team Foundation Server)

I was under the impression that they use SourceDepot still, but I could be wrong.

Codeplex, which is Microsoft's open source site, supports Mercurial, SVN and TFS.

Holy freaking cow, Microsoft has an open source hosting site?

If you can give it that much credit, yes, technically they do.

It's mainly C# and .NET stuff on there.

it has more to do with corporate affiliations:

hg seems to be strong at Google github was done in ruby php ... whatever

Java?

Java is a specification, the Oracle JRE/JDK is not open source. The OpenJDK uses Hg. When they talk about Python they are talking about the cpython or main implementation. Pypy, another Python implementation uses Hg as well

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