Avoiding a transit of the United States
wikitravel.org
wikitravel.org
Does flying through the US as the citizen of a non-waived-visa country suck? Yup. But it's not like the US is the only country that has these policies. The UK has a list of countries that require transit visas. The Schengen Zone has a list of countries that require transit visas. Russia does.
And to add further anecdotal fuel to the fire (and counter yours): As a US citizen the worst customs I've been through is far and away the UK.
You have to leave North America within 3 months
I know the US is powerful, but I really doubt they can require you to leave North America. I think you're reading something wrong.
The US can't make you leave North America, but if they find out you're in violation of a visa waiver (e.g. if you transit back through the US on the way home), then they can deny entry.
I don't understand. If you fly into the US, then enter Canada via land crossing, they will stamp your passport upon leaving the US, thereby terminating your automatic tourist 'visa'. When you return to the US via land crossing, they will give you a new passport stamp.
Note that it isn't illegal to enter the US for two months, and then spend two months in Canada. It's just that the US won't let you back in until you've left North America. How exactly (or even if) they know you've left North America, I have no idea.
From what I can turn up, you are correct about the Visa Waiver Program. Once you enter the USA, your 90 days begins ticking. The one and only way to reset it is to leave the region of the USA, Canada, Mexico, and minor islands.
It appears, however, that if you skip VWP in favor of of a B-2 tourist visa, you can renew this upon reentry, with no hard-set limit on renewals.
As in all things, everything is up to the discretion of border patrol. It seems that while reentry renewal of a B-2 visa is considered normal, they generally want you to go back home for six months out of the year.
That said, the process of going to the US was every bit as onerous as described, being asked questions multiple times, being subjected to a backscatter scan (which I declined and got patted down, tested for explosives, etc), etc.
However, I'd have to say that the most nerve-wracking insane experience is the US border. You cannot believe policies, as they are implemented in strange and weird ways, dependent on the officer you get to speak to.
Who are all armed. And trained in special-ops interrogation techniques.
I'd say Israel is on par with that, (though i haven't been through), however they fear daily attacks in Tel Aviv, so there's plenty to worry about.
The US Border - possibly the most trafficked today, is also the most hostile compared to what it _needs_ to be. It doesn't even matter if you are a visa waived traveller, you still go through the same crap as if you were on any other visa.
As a deal: You tell your guys stop being dicks to me when I fly to London, and I'll tell my guys to stop being dicks to you when you fly to [US city of choice] :-D
Yes, other countries have visa requirements; I myself was bitten by the Schengen Zone requirement last time I was in Belgium and Germany. But the point is that I don't need to spend hundreds of dollars, navigate a series of confusing bureaucratic hurdles, and then have my body and bags x-rayed and the minutiae of my personal life cross-examined by high-school graduates on a power trip just to have a 4-hour layover in most other countries... unlike America.
To contrast this, the last international flight I took was entering Mexico last month (where I am now); the line was long, but I wasn't asked a single question before my passport was stamped. The 2nd to last international landing I had was in Belgium: I was asked the purpose of my visit and was waved along in 30 seconds.
The most complicated visa requirement I've run in to was Vietnam, which required a stamped visa to be processed before you crossed the border. Even then it was a matter of giving $25 to my travel agent along with a short customs-style form.
Yes you can say that, say, an Iraqi citizen will have a hard time getting in to any country, not just the US; but when we're talking people from England, Europe, China, hell, even Mexico and Canada--neighbors and close allies for generations--the process can still be harrowing. And that's not just unfriendly, it's damaging to relations in the long-term. 20-something backpackers who get hassled crossing into America today, or who choose to go to a different country for 6 months instead of face American border bureaucracy, will take those experiences with them when they enter industry and leadership positions in the future.
Edit: another anecdote--on entering New Zealand I was asked for proof of onward travel (as I later found out, a requirement to enter the country). I didn't have any; I had planned on staying a few months then carrying on to Australia when I felt like it. When I told the agent this, she laughed and waved me on. Can you imagine a US border agent doing that?
I imagine that you're doing work while traveling. How does that play out with regards to visas and taxation?
For most countries in EU at least, you are only tax liable if you spend more than half the year there.
I spend my time between Russia, Denmark and Asia and I am less than half a year at each place, in a given year. This means my only tax responsibility is corporate tax, and in such places as I mentioned above, that percentage is 0.
As for visas, this varies of course from country to country. A lot of countries will allow you in for 1-3 months at a time, as long as you do the necessary paperwork.
Some countries like Thailand, gives you "visa on arrival", while some countries like Russia, require you to get a visa before you even arrive. When a visa is expired, some countries allows you to get a new 1-3 month visa, after just leaving the country for a day (such a one-day trip is what's referred to as a "visa run").
Working is generally allowed as long as you are a one man operation, doing your own thing with foreign clients. If you start to deal heavily with local companies, or start renting offices and hiring local personnel, you'd need to get a work permit and often also a locally incorporated company. Getting work permits are often much harder to obtain, as you'd generally also need a full time living permit for that.
> Yes you can say that, say, an Iraqi citizen will have a hard time getting in to any country, not just the US; but when we're talking people from England, Europe, China, hell, even Mexico and Canada
England and most western European countries don't require visas to enter the US at all, since they qualify under the VWP. Mexico and Canada only recently required a passport to entry, and at most high-volume crossings you can use a special state/federal ID instead.
Harrowing, I think, is too strong of a word. Several years ago I was stopped at the Canadian border on I5 (between Seattle and Vancouver) and had my car searched. I had to sit in an immigration office for an hour and answer a ton of questions. That's about as bad as it can get between NAFTA countries and it's hardly what I'd call harrowing.
All of that having been said: You're preaching to the choir. I'm 100% in favor of relaxing entry and work requirements for foreigners into the US. I think that people overreact about the US requirements when for most first world citizens it's not that big of a deal, and for the rest of the world it's complicated just about everywhere else too.
> 20-something backpackers who get hassled crossing into America today, or who choose to go to a different country for 6 months instead of face American border bureaucracy, will take those experiences with them when they enter industry and leadership positions in the future.
Agreed, but this has more to do with foreign policy and international PR rather than just border security and hassle.
> Edit: another anecdote--on entering New Zealand I was asked for proof of onward travel (as I later found out, a requirement to enter the country). I didn't have any; I had planned on staying a few months then carrying on to Australia when I felt like it. When I told the agent this, she laughed and waved me on. Can you imagine a US border agent doing that?
Counter anecdote: I once flew back from Mexico without a passport or any identification other than a driver's license (this was right after the passport requirements for flight went into effect -- Mexico didn't require a US passport for entry, but the US required a passport for re-entry) and had to convince the CBP agent that I was an American. He asked me a couple questions and ended with "Who was your freshman English teacher?" which I laughed at and said: "Are you serious?! Does anyone remember that?" and he laughed and let me in. Took just about as long as a normal border crossing.
The big problem with UK immigration is that it seems to take the lead from the US. Unfortunately we end up with more theatre and less security as a result.
I can fully understand anyone who wants to avoid having a transfer at an US airport. Why risk any of those problems when you can just transfer via another country?
Until I see the world protest US actions in the only way that matters( e.g. refusing to finance our government's activities ), I will continue to laugh off the "world hates the US" babble.
Stop buying our toilet paper and I'll take it seriously.
No, my point was that the world is literally routing around the US.
1999: 1 US dollar = 1.57 Canadian dollar.
2011: 1 US dollar = 0.97 Canadian dollar.
Insatiable lust?
Drive down to the poorest section of your town. Do you see any pawn shops? Do you see any signs offering to buy dilapidated houses for cash? Do you see cash for gold signs? Do you see payday loan businesses? Do you see businesses that advance you money against your tax refund? Will someone give you a sub-prime loan to buy a house you can't afford? Is there a WalMart ready to sell you plastic junk?
I am not saying that the US is an economic slum. However, I offer this analogy to demonstrate that it is a logical fallacy to assume that just because people want to sell you stuff and loan you money, therefore your actions must be respected.
The world doesn't boycott doing business with you. So what? That doesn't automatically mean that it respects what you are doing, any more than a pawnshop owner loaning money in the slum respects his clientele.
p.s. Please don't take my response too personally, I'm reacting to the previous 999 times I've read it or variations of it as well.
p.p.s. FWIW, If I were to argue that the world still looks up to the US, I wouldn't use treasury bonds to bolster my argument, I'd use immigration. It's hard to argue with the hordes of people who pack up their lives and cross oceans to start fresh in the USA.
For the same reason, on return, I couldn't bring back any Japanese booze from the airport. I had to go through a second liquids and customs check at YVR.
So if you are coming off/going to a US flight from an international one you have to go out and back in. There is a US <-> International security gate but it's not normally staffed
And screw ups happen - I lost a Lufthansa bottle of champagne they gave me on board for screwing up my seat. At a change in Frankfurt the we had to be bussed from the plane to the terminal - the bus dropped us outside security and I lost the sealed Lufthansa labeled champagne to the security desk.
The only thing that pssed me off: I had to pay $5 for the trolley. No where in the world have i traveled (Britain, Finland, France, Australia, Singapore) where I have to pay for the trolley in side the airport!
Of course that was because the USSR was an evil empire with an out of control military, a bloated sense of it's own importance and a paranoia about foreigners.
Wait, are you implying that that is now the US, or should I make that implication?
You don't have to believe me, just ask an Afghan.
While I accept the original mission was justified for the US, I have absolutely no idea what we were doing in Iraq other than empire-building.
I think Greenland should retaliate with a $100 overflying charge
His crime was having converted to Islam.
People fly from Britain to Australia all the time. They always try to go via Singapore, Hong Kong or Dubai. They always try to avoid LA.
I assumed Americans already knew they were being shunned. It's nothing to do with anti-Americanism. But, yes, "onerous" is right.
I was really surprised to learn that I'd need a transit visa to connect in the US.
Comparing USA and EU: The EU has 501,064,211 people, according to the same source. Like - 160% of the US. And, as others pointed out in this thread: Large parts of it are part of the Schengen treaty(?) and therefor rather easy for travellers.
I do think you oversimplicate things here..
Thanks.
http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/howtoapply/infs/inf20transit#23...
Even though they say that entry is "at the Immigration Officer’s discretion and there is no guaranteed right of entry", I've used this concession twice (I'm a citizen of Armenia) with no problems, and have never heard of anyone being refused entry.
The first time I used the concession was when I was flying NYC -> Heathrow (arriving at 2am), followed by Gatwick -> Prague (departing at 10pm). Not only did this allow me to take advantage of a cheap EasyJet fare, but I managed to fit in a full day of sightseeing in London into the 24 hour allowance.
> Citizens of the following countries are required to have airport transit visa when they are passing through the international transit area of airports in Germany: Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Ghana, India, Iran, Iraq, Jordan*, Lebanon, Myanmar/Burma, Nigeria, Pakistan, Somalia, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Syria and Turkey.
Let me recount my last year experience. My friend and I had to travel to Portugal for a summer intern from India. To keep transit headaches to minimum, I booked flights such that transits occur in Istanbul. No visa crap, just walk across to international transit and board the next flight. My friend on the other hand made a mistake to fly Lufthansa, and transit through Frankfurt.
Now, we were given a National Schengen Visa, one that was although granted under Schengen agreement, was valid only in Portugal and no other place. However, it allowed transit through other countries only while going to Portugal, and not while returning. Thus, my friend was detained in Frankfurt on his way back, searched and interrogated for 4 hours, and put on some Schengen no-fly list. OTOH, I walked like king in Turkey and enjoyed their hospitality.
So there you have it, all 1st world nations are assholes, including US, and I find it little hypocritical when somehow only US gets picked for it. I guess US is equal in discrimination of all people in transit.
I dont disagree that not having separation between transit and exit terminal is the suck, but how much of a problem for people whose destination is not US is it?
Second, the USA is economically more influential than its mere land area indicates. There are a more big international airports located in the USA than in all of Latin America or Australia/Oceania. Flights often have connections through those USA airports instead of flying direct to smaller markets.
For example, there are exactly three flights between Asia and Latin America. A few times a week, Aeromexico flys between Mexico City and Narita, Japan (via Tiuana one way because of high/hot regulations). Similarly Emirates between Dubai and Sāo Paulo. And once a week there's an Aeromexico flight between Shanghai and Mexico City (also with high/hot limits).
Those flights can and do charge about $500-$700 extra per passenger for the luxury of avoiding the USA transit. The usual routings used by at least 10 times more passengers every day pass through US airports on those routes.
Technically it's what is called an "Geoid"[0] but for most purposes the description of an "oblate spheroid" [1] will do. Those "shortest straight distances" are called "great circles" or geodesic; an arc between two points on a spheroid also called a great distance. Technically, because the Earth isn't spheroidal but oblate, the shortest distance isn't quite a great circle. [2] The maps used for aeronautical navigation are "gnomonic" in projection to show great circles as straight lines. [3]
[0] http://www.kartografie.nl/geometrics/reference%20surfaces/re...
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oblate_spheroid
There's also the time when the Pan-American games teams were stuck because the US implemented the visa just at the time they were leaving.
The fact that we can't even transit is very annoying - Miami used to be a big hub for the Caribbean, and flights to Canada are more convenient through the US (I've got family in Canada, and I took the Air Canada Buenos Aires - Toronto flight even though it's more expensive than going through the US, because of the transit visa).
I've never visited the US for that reason (I stood a few miles from the border in Niagara, but it made no sense to go through all that hassle and expenditure for just a day's visit)
On the other hand, recently (should I say this anonymously), annoyed by the extra security and machines, when a TSA agent asked me to take off my shoes and my sweater, I said fine. I went topless. After all, that's what the new machines see anyway.
The look on the TSA agent's face? Ouch.
I have flown in JFK, LAX, LAS, and MKE since the body scanners started. There's usually at least one line that uses a metal detector still. So I always pick that line.
It is a joke, though, to see middle-class, middle-aged women in a long-sleeve shirt and jeans getting a body scan and then a subsequent pat-down. What a waste of my tax dollars.
Once you leave an international flight you are herded straight to immigration for the fingerprinting.
So while you spend 2hours getting through immigration your cases are just sitting there - if you are lucky there is a single old women supposedly checking baggage tags.
- It invites a bunch of snarky comments. > The world interprets the US as damage and routes around it.
- No solutions to problems, just complaints.
- Is there a solution?
- Aren't these kind of submissions better left to Reddit?