Procrastination and Perfectionism | Hacker News Reader

Procrastination and Perfectionism

structuredprocrastination.com

142 pointszizek29 comments

This is me to a tee. And it's terrible. It's such a bad feeling to have so many assignments or projects pile up while you imagine how perfect they could turn out.

In the end, all of the things I sit on for much too long get done, make other people happy, make the grade, and work, but there's always that lingering thought in the back of my head: I could have done this so much better.

I need to stop doing this...

Me too. I think the worst part is when I "sit on [it] for much too long." I always find myself holding onto projects/design papers/documentation because I know (or, actually, think) that I will be able to fine tune them further and make them "perfect".

Even though I submit great work, I end up getting less work done and as a result, end up looking less competent than some of my peers.

Same here, or was...

Just quit thinking about it and at least try something.

I've accomplished so much more since I started doing that.

If you wait around till the perfect idea with the perfect opportunity you're going to be so late to the game that you'll probably be dead last.

I am so happy I saw this post because I know that I'm not the only one. We just need to forget about being perfect and get the job done, while enjoying it.

I think if I enjoy doing stuff slightly less than perfect, or even just a 'good' job, then I would definitely be much happier.

I've been a procrastinator for as long as I can remember. In elementary school I recall being assigned the the task of writing a report on the composer Rossini. I had no interest and I still haven't done it 30+ years later. But for some reason I still think about it. The explanation in this article doesn't hold true for me. When it comes to things that aren't fun or that may be evaluated for quality and I must get them done of face some dire consequence, maybe... I also procrastinate in buying things, mostly as a way of saving money. But I rarely if ever procrastinate in doing things I love doing. I never put off playing a game of chess with my son or going biking or writing or taking on an interesting software project.

I don't think Perry was saying that perfectionism is the only explanation for procrastination. I read his essay as a very insightful explanation of his own style of putting things off. Some of us procrastinators may be like him, others may not.

There's also clearly a distinction between avoiding something you have no interest in doing, and avoiding doing something you enjoy. It sounds like you're talking about the former, when Perry was talking about the latter. When he talked about his initial thoughts when accepting the refereeing assignment, he didn't view it as something menial -- rather, it was something he imagined both enjoying and doing well.

Some of us do put off doing things that interest us -- for exactly the reasons Perry describes. Of course YMMV.

A joke I read in a David Foster Wallace book went something like ... There was an employee at an ad agency who did good work but took a little too long to complete his assignments. One day the boss comes up to him and asks "Johnson did it ever seem ironic to you that the work paralysis rhymes with perfectionist?".

The employee thinks about it and says "Yea I think I see your point about perfectionist and paralysis being somewhat interrelated like that but there is actually a 't' on the end of the word 'perfectionist'. So even though I think you have a valid point, those two words don't really rhyme like what you're saying".

The boss looks at him for a second and says "Well, close enough".

sorry, meant to write "...ironic to you that the word paralysis rhymes with ..."

Well, close enough. :)

Well, by nature, perfectionism can be crippling. The DSM doesn't classify it as a mental disorder, but most people in the field note its similarities with something like OCD and other anxiety-related disorders.

Personally, I've found perfectionism can be beneficial if one embraces the reality that they will never achieve the perfect X. The journey is in the trying to get there (and of course, knowing when to stop.)

There were several good HN conversations on this, back when HN was "young", if anyone cares to look for them. (Unfortunately, I've lost the references I saved.)

(I don't mean to be ironic; I just can't justify the time/effort to dig for them, right now. But I thought they were useful, when I encountered them.)

EDIT:

To clarify, I meant procrastination and "structured procrastination" generally, not just -- but also not excluding -- procrastination and perfectionism.

Also, I'm not comfortable with my vague "go search" suggestion, so here's a least a minimal start:

https://encrypted.google.com/search?&q=site%3Anews.ycomb...

which turns up, for just one quickly identified example,

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=579979

I love the philosopher that wrote this, John Perry. He wrote this other essay called "The Essential Indexical" that is about how we assign reference to the word "I" in different contexts. Read it if you want an example of what Paul Graham refered to in one of his essays, when he says the lesson of philosophy '...is that the concepts we use in everyday life are fuzzy, and break down if pushed too hard." You certainly should read "The Essential Indexical" if you think you understand that when you use the word "I" it unambiguously refers.

Thanks for the suggestion! What's interesting is that by coming at it from the philosophical and linguistic perspective, he doesn't discuss the psychological limitations of "I" as a concept -- multiple personas and personalities, self-definition via relationships. Or maybe he is discussing them, just using different terms?

This is a relevant research paper I found interesting: "Several differences exist between healthy perfectionists and the dysfunctional perfectionists..."

http://www.gifted.uconn.edu/NRCGT/reports/rm99140/rm99140.pd...

Here is something I found out worked for me: Say I want to write a blog post, but in order to do it perfectly, I should really have an illustration to go with it. Now, before I start looking into that illustration, I start writing a bit on the blog post. Then I'll work on the illustration. I go back and forth between the tasks until the text itself is finished. Half the time, I end up not needing that illustration, and every time I manage to publish faster.

I can't tell if it is on purpose or not, but the way that page renders (in Chrome at least) is perfect for the subject.

It very nearly describes how I find myself to function as well. As long as there is theoretical possibility of doing an improved job than I am currently at, if i did something and delivered right now — I will most likely procrastinate into related subjects that indeed could help improve my response to the task at hand.

While at a the start line we have all this potential (we are perfectionist ), we see this perfect solution we will deliver, but deep down we do know that once we actually start — it just does not happen. Its like if we start we know that we will limit our potential because we have to make choices; narrowing down the possible result.

The reason I/we procrastinate is because not doing so means earlier realizing we will not live up to our own high so-believed standards.

To simply tell myself "do the non-perfect thing" might work from time to time, but it doesn't really solve all that much, its just a way to get by.

This is me too. I manage to impress other people with what I accomplish, yet feel dissatisfied because my dreams were so much bigger.

I also find it ironic that I own one of Prof Perry's philosophy books (Personal Identity). Bought it 15 years ago, but have yet to get around to reading it!

MVP Mantra right there. Don't worry about being perfect just get something out there.

I spent a long time imagining posting an astonishingly insightful and erudite comment on this essay, but at the last minute I settled for just posting this.

Funny, just three days ago I attended a Master's Thesis info meeting where one of the slides had this exact headline :)

Procratinsation is a coping mechanism for perfectionism?

I would refer to it as delusional perfectionism. You build up this image of what a great job you are going to do, but well you never end up doing it, until you encounter some outside pressure to just get it done. So that in the end you just get it done and it is most likely no where near perfection.

I don't think this applies for me, even though he says "this is most people". I mean, here's what he's describing:

1. Recieve task

2. Create intricate, well-thought-out plan for task

3. Plan goes awry after banging your head on the wall for 8 hours

4. Frustration

5. Time

6. Do a hackjob near the deadline

Whereas for me, it's

1. Receive task

2. I don't want to do this task. Thinking about it scares my brain. It's going to take too long, I'm too stupid, I don't know where to start

3. HN

Anybody else more on the me side of things?

Yes.

I am more of a pragmatist than a perfectionist, so I don't set out to do everything "perfectly" the first time. (Although I suspect the people that know me best would disagree, but regardless, I don't have the thought pattern that this guy is talking about.)

Based on some things I've read recently and observing my own behavior, I've decided that there are two things which will cause me to procrastinate on a task: either the "start cost" is too high, or I don't know how to do it (or how I want to do it).

The first case happens when I know all of how to do a particular thing, but I just don't want to do it. A good recent example of this was spinning up a ground-up web server rebuild and taking notes on the entire thing so that I can automate it later. I know how to do that, I just don't want to. I'd rather go read HN -- or, really, do just about anything else, including the dishes -- so I'll procrastinate indefinitely.

I now keep an eye out for when I start doing this. I have a very simple, small, white lined notepad on my desk, on the very edge of my workspace. If I procrastinate too long, then I start with a clean page on it, and I break my ominous job down into a series of pathetically simple little tasks: "1. Log in to Linode; 2. Order new server; 3. Name new server; 4. Boot new server; ...", and I fill that out while I'm reading something or doing other things. Sometimes I'll take about a day to write something out that way.

Then, I'll be staring at the notepad, I'll see the first line, and I'll think ... huh, that's not so bad. I could do that. I should do that. I think I'll do that. ...OK, that was easy. I guess I should do the next thing too. Before I know it, I've immersed myself in the task and I won't come back up for air again until it's done.

In the other case, where I don't know how to do a particular thing, I've just come to terms with that and I structure my workflow around it. I try not to commit to projects that are too large, or with too many question-marks, or with too tight of a schedule. I'm confident that eventually I'll figure out whatever puzzle it is that I'm stuck on, I just have to give it time, and stressing out and trying to force myself through it won't help.

Yes. My problem is very similar. Sometimes its because I think I'm stupid, but sometimes I'm almost afraid to start (because I'm worried about failing) or the task just seems too large. Maybe my approach has too many issues that I don't know how to address. Sometimes its just that I don't know where to start.

When I was in college I also had this problem, but then I would realize things were due in a day or two and I'd just figure everything out (often in one all-nighter). I'm finally starting to get over this.

Observations on procrastination:

I only do things like cleaning up around the house, vacuuming, etc. when there is something less pleasant that I'm required to get done. Need to call the insurance agent to work out a billing issue? Suddenly this carpet looks positively filthy.

I'm easily bored and addicted to certain brain chemicals. In interpersonal interaction, I generally lose interest quickly unless it's witty banter. Reddit is obviously a dangerous inhibitor of any productivity for me, then.

Since I'm easily bored, procrastination provides a handy way to create an interesting, high-pressure situation. I can't count the number of times I pulled all-nighters for the most inane school assignments. Usually, I thought I did terribly, yet yielded an acceptable or high score. This payoff feeds back into the excitement for next time.

Disappointment is painful. Truly putting one's best into something -- which turns out to require many times the amount of effort that you imagined -- only to find flaw in it (QA, or teacher grading) leaves one feeling devastated. It's much better to have my hand forced by 'external' factors (time restraint) so that I have an excuse for imperfect results.

I was once sitting at a table in a restaurant, eating lunch by myself, when I overheard at a nearby table: "... it's my `N - 1' theory of work: you always work on the second most important thing." It was so true, I burst out laughing.

>Suddenly this carpet looks positively filthy.

I can so relate to that. Though I clean my work desk (while telling myself I'll be more effective on a clear desk) not carpets.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com