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Comment by gameswithgo | Hacker News Reader

>Who's going to want to risk themselves or their employees if we can't ensure our own safety?

LOTS of people will, and we can reduce the risk with masks. Provide them to employees, require they wear them, maybe require customers wear them too.

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Is that the track record we've set? Does everyone who currently need masks to work get them - like nurses and doctors and folks working in shipping warehouses? Because there is a lot of contrary evidence to that.

https://www.wired.com/story/amazon-workers-pandemic-risks-ow...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/amazon-warehouse-workers-staten...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/04/11/corona...

That will help, but it certainly can't facilitate all of the normal consumer behavior that the economy relies on. How do you drink at a bar or eat at a restaurant with a face mask on? Would you event want to?

It might help people be more comfortable performing essential tasks in public, but as long as we're seeing thousands of deaths per week on the news, people by and large are going to stay home if they can.

Doesn't seem like there are enough masks for this either though. The US is going to need literally billions of masks that are distributed to the population.

Are we doing everything we can to ramp up production as fast as possible?

even home mad masks are effective.

No. Even N95 is even a joke considering the airborne contagiousness of covid19. N95 literally means non-oil-resistant, 95% filtration efficiency. I'll continue to wear my P100 safety mask while the lazy minded cling to the word N95 like it is some panacea or bastion of protection, whilst being statistically trashgutter. Most people have no idea what N95 even means, treating it like some model number. I'm pretty sure that the seal on a mask that secures like a party hat is not good enough when an airborne contaminant is in play..

Let's all just keep using rubber band party hat masks while the intelligent among us sport the P100 eliteness. /s

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/topics/respirators/factsheet...

https://i.imgur.com/cPTZf6h.png

Effective at what?

reducing the chance you will spread the virus to others and to a lesser degree reducing the chance you get it yourself.

No. One company that makes masks says they're not expanding production. The last time they did, as soon as the crisis was over the hospitals started ordering from China again. They had a huge stock of unsold masks, and almost went bankrupt even after layoffs.

That's the free market.

This is where the US government could step in. The federal government should mandate a certain level of production and guarantee purchase of those masks, if folks abuse these bids we should pursue them hard in court like we did in WWII... I mean, if the courts are going to actually hold folks to account, that's the big question.

The U.S. Army does that for ammo, with big government-owned munitions plants. Many production lines are mothballed, but can be started up if needed. There's little demand for artillery projectiles in peacetime, and a huge demand in wartime.

The free market is also 3M realizing after the SARS outbreak in 2003 that something like this might happen again, and building surge capacity into its manufacturing plants. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-03-25/3m-double...

Unfortunately, the CDC learned no such lesson and continued to operate as though no widespread contagious disease could possibly break out on US soil, as they had virtually no stockpile of masks nor even plans to secure the mask supply chain, etc (not to mention their testing strategy only scaled to hundreds of cases per day). I suppose that's the unitary state.

Of course, the CDC should have a serious reserve of masks (and other general equipment for the most likely outbreaks) and plans to secure the supply chain, including partnering with private industry to make sure they can operate at an increased capacity in case of emergency. There's no fundamental reason that our federal agencies have to be incompetent with respect to their fundamental purpose.

True enough, but the CDC discretionary budget was tiny. In order to establish a significant stockpile they would have needed a budget line item from Congress. So Congress certainly deserves a portion of the blame for lack of foresight.

I don’t buy that argument because:

1. Masks were dirt cheap and certainly useful for any serious epidemic or bioterrorism event or just about any other emergency scenario for which the CDC would be called upon (our reserves were in the tens of thousands, but those masks sell for cents apiece—could have had a million masks for ~$500K)

2. The CDC didn’t even have plans to secure the supply chain, and plans are damn near free

3. The CDC was budget constrained but went and developed its own test instead of using the WHO test?

EDIT: Updated math figure

>could have had a billion masks for ~$500K

Something is seriously off with your math.

Only 3 orders of magnitude. :)

Thanks for the correction.

3M can crank up production by 2x short term, and much more in 12 months, by which time it may be too late.

I don't want a mask, or a test. I just want to be left alone to get a bad cough once in a while.

Remind me again how many flu deaths we had this season?

covid is currently killing more people per day than the flu on a bad season, and that's with a lockdown.

Check out flu deaths vs. COVID deaths in New York for the past couple years:

https://i.redd.it/u3fx3aw1n6s41.jpg

That's with a complete lockdown. What do you think that chart would look like if people were just 'left alone to get a bad cough'?

> What do you think that chart would look like if people were just 'left alone to get a bad cough'?

quite similar if it's as contagious as we're told.

Flu (2020): About 600 deaths per day at peak, 14,000 total in US.

Coronavirus: 1400-2000 deaths per day now, 23,000 total so far, still climbing.[2]

USA #1 in coronavirus deaths! [1]

[1] https://www.ft.com/coronavirus-latest

[2] https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/coronavirus-death...

seems easy to get counted as a COVID death, ya?

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/coronavirus/Alert-2-New-I...

https://twitter.com/PeterRQuinones/status/125020387852143820...

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