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Comment by qeternity | Hacker News Reader

That “nothing” is everything.

Yeah, "nothing" is a really poor term to summarize "Apple made fundamentally superior choices in terms of hardware development, software integration and general OS input architecture in the past 15 years".

I use both Windows and Fedora enthusiastically on desktop machines, but recognize that even high-end Windows laptops have trouble matching my 2012 Macbook in terms of input. Apple has been miles ahead of the competition in this specific regard for years. I would love to use Linux on a laptop, but although the combination of libinput and modern Qt and Gtk are helping here they're still ways off [1].

Many people who have only used Linux and Windows on laptops for years assume that a touchpad is only there as an emergency. That you cannot seriously use a laptop without a peripheral.

On Macbooks, that's simply not the case - I never use a mouse with my Macbook. It's easy and probably deserved to discount Macbooks in other areas (even in terms of e.g. keyboard input, looking at Apple's 2016-2019 lineup), but you don't know how good an input tool a touchpad can be unless you've spent some time familiarizing yourself with a Mac touchpad.

Apple sells desktop versions of the touchpad [2]. It might be difficult to believe, but they do so unironically. I bought one for when I connect my Macbook to a big screen.

[1]: I found that Ubuntu has a better laptop input experience when running in a VMWare Fusion than running natively on a Macbook, despite all hardware working out of the box...

[2]: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MJ2R2LL/A/magic-trackpad-...

> Apple sells desktop versions of the touchpad

IMO the best way to control Apple devices is KB + mouse + magic trackpad. Mouse is of course superior for precise movement such as highlighting text, but the trackpad itself is worth it just for the gestures.

Frankly I'm so used to Apple touchpads that I could never even imagine using a mouse with a Mac.

I have a mouse and keyboard attached to my 2015 MBP....and I still reach for that track pad. I really need to replace my mouse with their Magic Trackpad. It's just that good.

>Many people who have only used Linux and Windows on laptops for years assume that a touchpad is only there as an emergency.

I never use mice, only trackpads, on Windows laptops and Windows laptops from 2013 with Linux on them, and it's fine. c: And by fine I mean bad, but that's just laptops, as an ontological concept, to me.

Well that's what I'm trying to say :) Touchpads on Windows and Linux are "fine" at best (high end Dells are good enough to get out of the way I've heard) and "terrible" at worst. On Macbooks they're consistently great, and can make it legitimately enjoyable to use a laptop as a, uh, laptop.

Worth noting that there are still usage scenarios where a mouse beats a touchpad (i.e. image editing, pointer centric games), but overall touchpads don't have to be the inferior option if your computer is built for it.

My Huawei Matebook actually has an excellent touchpad interface as far as I can tell. The only real drawback is excessive pinch sensitivity, which seems to be application-specific (happens all the time in Firefox, less in Office). Scrolling and selecting are continuous. Minesweeper is still hard to right-click 100% of the time, but that didn't work well on OS X either. In fairness, my most recent Mac was from 2013.

Unfortunately Huawei's reputation is mud these days thanks to the Chinese government. They made pretty nice laptops, though the aesthetics are obviously imitating somebody.

> Apple sells desktop versions of the touchpad

Yes, they do, I'm using one. Aside of haptic feedback which allows it to go really quiet, it's really nothing special - just a regular touchpad. I'm also using the internal one in my Dell XPS - if it was slightly bigger it would be just as good. In the past I've used Lenovo Yoga one and it was just as good either.

I'm using touchpads exclusively on GNU/Linux for years now. It's a myth that Apple touchpads are "magical" - it's just macOS which comes with good defaults, but if you put some effort in it you can get it just as comfortable on GNU/Linux as on macOS (sans continuous gestures, I have to admit that's the one thing I envy them).

> even high-end Windows laptops have trouble matching my 2012 Macbook in terms of input

That's only because vendor drivers on Windows are notoriously bad. My girlfriend is using a mid-2012 13" MBP and its touchpad is rather meh. Not bad, but I've used much better ones. Current Macbook touchpads are better than the 2012 ones though.

That "nothing" means that MacBooks (when running OS X) are the only laptops that are really usable without a mouse. Even in some games.

For you, maybe. I think a TrackPoint (ThinkPad) is far superior to a trackpad, MacBook or otherwise.

Not when you want speed and precision. the area of touchpad is far greater and it shows when you want to draw something, or move cursor between edges of the screen. that's the same as playing first person shooter on console controller vs the mouse.

My old correctly calibrated trackpoint (on Linux, even) was better at precision movement than any track I’ve used since (including all the major vendors).

Not even talking about the haptic feedback, pressure sensitivity (fun for drawing, handy for quicklook and dozens of other things). Precision? Oh yes. Moving per pixel is bliss.

It might sound elitist, but if someone tells me they have a better input interface than one of apple's trackpad, my mind goes somewhere else. I even replaced the mouse at my work with their trackpad.

I remember when I was big at CSGO and wanted to play a few matches on the go one time. I still ranked pretty high, with a TRACKPAD.

Most touchpads have just as good precision - well, unless you count really crappy low end ones of course. Haptic feedback is a nice thing and it's the reason why I own a Magic Trackpad 2 (I have even hacked the kernel driver to get it more quiet than what macOS allows), but that's pretty much its only differentiating factor.

> It might sound elitist, but if someone tells me they have a better input interface than one of apple's trackpad, my mind goes somewhere else.

I don't think it sounds elitist, but just presumptuous. I don't actually think a TrackPoint is superior in every case, and I think Apple has done a great job for a trackpad, but at the same time I'd hate to go back to a trackpad for general use.

Macbooks do literally nothing, it's macOS that does. And with a bit of effort and understanding of the input stack, you can get it pretty close on GNU/Linux anyway - at least close enough for really comfortable usage. I haven't been using mice for years now and I'm not a Macbook user.

You’re missing the forest for the trees. Nobody saying this can’t be replicated. But Apple does it out of the box, and better than any alternative I’ve tried. That’s why people buy Macs. Time is money.

> Time is money.

Exactly. I like how Professor Galloway (professor at NYU, investor, podcaster, etc...) puts it - successful businesses create time machines. People will pay large sums of money to gain more time.

...but that's a completely different argument to make. I was answering the question about what does the hardware do differently, and the correct answer is: nothing (well, aside of haptic feedback to be exact, but unless you care about silent clicks it's just a gimmick).

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