Amazon to suspend delivery service that competes with UPS, FedEx
wsj.com
wsj.com
How does that work? So it is like Instacart but with Amazon picking it up and delivering it? I don't see how could that scale.
Edit: Incase this isn't clear, I have placed an order for 6 items in 6 different shops. If all these items were in Amazon Warehouse, they would have packaged together and shipped from One Destination. Just reading from the sentence it seems Amazon Shipping will have to go to 6 different places to pick up the package. It is the case that One to Many scale, many to many / one is difficult.
Similarly to UPS and FedEx, one would assume.
If Amazon delivery drivers are moving around a city anyway then it isn't necessarily much additional work to pick up packages along the way as well as dropping them off. They presumably collaborate rather than having one driver do everything - so 6 different drivers pick up the items, bring them back to a central location, and from there it's just another standard Amazon delivery with 6 items in it.
Great if you don't have access to a printer.
I recall (perhaps incorrectly) that Royal Mail once offered a service where you could buy an "online stamp", then you would write a long string of letters and numbers above the address on the envelope to send it. It was distinct from freepost.
"I collect 10 character long strings."
It could be going out full, returning full.
I also assume it would be getting a volume of pickups from the businesses, not just one.
Let's say Big Delivery Company pays Joe and Bill to deliver 200 packages each, splitting a region of the city between them. They drive and deliver for 10 hours each, probably covering 50-100km each on the road- drive to the next stop, drop package off, repeat.
But now let's say BDC adds 200 pickups of packages as well in the same region, and also adds Kate as a driver, splitting the region 3 ways. Now, each driver still has 200 stops (some drop offs, some pickups), but the average distance between stops decreases since it's the same area overall region with more stops to make. That means each driver is driving less, taking less time, becoming more efficient.
As density of stops increases, variable cost decreases. Those pick ups are also additional business- tomorrow, density will be higher somewhere else. Given that, BDC could be doing those deliveries at cost, and still come out making money because of all the efficiency gains elsewhere.
And yes, this does make presumptions that pick ups are as easy as drop offs, etc, etc. Lots of those to go around. But the principle is the same: density is money, and any company doing deliveries wants more density.
Piloting the drones isn't the problem- the problem is logistics, noise, regulation, costs, etc.
There's just no reason to waste the energy, the coordination effort or take on the risk.
Legality: how high above your property do you own? Would a drone flying at 50 feet be trespassing? 100? 200?
Loss: how do you recover a crashed drone? Or one intentionally downed?
Range: how much power can you pack onboard without compromising payload capacity?
Payload capacity: how much can you reasonably lift?
Cost: dollar for dollar, is it more cost effective than trucks (even robotic ones)?
And so on.
Drones are loud. Incredibly loud.
Or, more optimally, you would configure delivery windows and tell it when someone will be available and they schedule one or two delivery times in that window.
I do agree though that they make a lot more sense than drones, for several reasons: (a) power consumption / mileage per charge (b) carrying capacity (c) safety in populated areas (d) privacy when flying by buildings (e) lack of suitable landing areas in urban centers (f) noise in residential areas.
Source: I am the co-founder of one and aware of internals of several others
Putting robots directly where people are creates way more unknowns than having them operate outside of the normal human space.
Also it would seem it’s not an energy efficient way to deliver goods to people, but who knows. Paradoxically it would make sense for high value/low mass items like medicines (or narcotics too), but that would make them a more enticing target.
Delivering tacos or sushi on the other hand... maybe years hence.
The main reason we don't have drones deliver things is because the FAA bans it. No state or municipality can override the FAA, so we're all stuck until the feds change the law.
1. https://libjournals.mtsu.edu/index.php/jfee/article/download...
> We assume that operating costs for personnel, loading, and monitoring will be approximately the same per package for truck as for drone delivery.
but at least they included
> There are additional drone costs such as: setting-up and running the drone delivery stations, the investment in research and development, and lobbying the FAA. Other costs include: buildings and land associated with the drone stations, computers and monitoring software systems for drone flights, computer technicians and drone monitors on site, robotics engineers for maintenance and upgrades to drones on site, utility costs of running the building, logistics management team to oversee operations, potential insurance and legal fees associated with drones, and potential air and/or radio frequency rights for drones, etc. There is also the potential for legal costs in some of the following situations: drones are found operating in unauthorized airspace, drones are shot down by civilians, a drone lands in an unauthorized space, etc
There's also mention that the drones can only deliver up to 5lb packages.
Aside from electric vehicles some companies (DHL, Coolblue) also use electric bikes.
https://twitter.com/zipline/status/1245333880930029570
They have been solving these problems operationally for years now.
Emergency medical supplies (the twitter mentions "Lifesaving deliveries by drone") is quite different than delivering packages. That you can get something up and running for lifesaving stuff is one thing. Doing the same for my 0.50 EUR AliExpress package is different though, I'm not going to be home. If it's lifesaving I'd imagine you need it asap and someone will ensure that they'll be waiting for the package.
https://www.roanoke.com/news/nrv/wing-expands-drone-delivery...
Every family will have a drone “pet” with sole purpose if delivering Amazon stuff, in this case literally.
In the future, I want a drone with a replicator to land and make the shipment of products right in front of me. :-P
But they're not stopping the program until June, by which time the shipping will likely have slowed dramatically. Maybe they're announcing it now to appease FedEx and UPS when they desperately need their help, and can just renege later.
I was going to list my opinion why this is not relevant in any measure. But, that it just be another instance of "Old man yells at cloud".
As, I am still interested in the HN meta. I have a question for you readers, why did you voted up this story?
https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/postal-workers-wary-of...
> UPS is doing it so cheaply there's no way they're even close to breaking even on it.
You are saying "Amazon" has no way to be even close to breaking even?
> What's more, it's a substantial part of their network volume
Are you referring "it" is a substantial part of "Amazon"'s network volume?
That doesn't make sense to me... why would UPS sign a contract with Amazon that it wouldn't make money on?
I can see accepting a relatively low profit, but not negative. Even as some kind of strategic defensive move. There's no winning scenario for them to lose money on delivering packages for Amazon.
For the sake of argument, let’s say that Amazon makes up 50% of UPS’s business, and those packages are shipped by UPS at a 10% loss. If the other 50% of their business averages a 20% profit, then they’re averaging a 10% profit across the board.
Without the Amazon packages, let’s say UPS can cut their operating costs by 25%. Now they’re shipping 50% as many packages, though, so the per-package operating cost has increased by about ~33%. Those customers that were generating 20% profit when the network was larger are now a losing proposition. UPS then faces the choice of downsizing their operation or raising prices. Both of those options are about equally bad when you consider that their competitors are not impacted by the loss of Amazon’s business (well, to be totally correct, their competitors have already absorbed the disruption to their operations when Amazon pulled their business to move it to UPS in the first place).
To be clear, I’m not saying the above numbers are correct - or even close to being representative. I’m merely illustrating why it makes sense for transportation companies to take large-volume customers even at a loss.
Thanks so much for explaining!
"Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos said the company has placed an order for 100,000 electric delivery vans from Michigan-based startup Rivian. The announcement came during an event on Thursday in Washington, DC where Bezos unveiled Amazon’s sweeping plan to tackle climate change."
https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/19/20873947/amazon-electric-...
This was part of their investment into Rivian:
"In February 2019, Amazon announced it would be leading an investment round of $700 million into Rivian." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivian
USPS/UPS/FedEx have been sending the same person for years. They know where the mail room is, what the building hours are, who to call for building access when codes rotate, where the elevators are, where the emergency stairs are when the elevators are down, and where the units are.
Half the time Amazon delivery just leaves the package somewhere in the lobby or not even in the building.
But yes, I've also noticed when my package ends up in a completely different building on the other side of town because of missed cardinal direction on the address. Our office manager has working relationship with the office manager on the other side of town with an address similar to ours because of how often they have to trade wrongly delivered/addressed packages/mail.
Over the span of about six months, some stuff I got included an electric lawnmower left right in front of my door, motorcycle helmet, cooking appliances, and a foot massager. Every time I called, I begged Amazon to fix this. After the third delivery, I threw my hands up and stopped calling. I figure the recipient calling to complain about missing packages was more effective than me calling to ask them to stop sending me stuff. There were a couple of more deliveries after that before they got the hint.
Surprisingly Amazon has done the best in this situation because they incorporate a distinct step in their delivery protocol: the driver calls me if they can't find my door. I don't understand why FedEx and UPS can't do this.
>I don't understand why FedEx and UPS can't do this.
Amazon can be reasonably certain that the consignee is also the person that ordered the package, and they have that person's phone number. FedEx and UPS do not have this luxury. I've called numbers for alcohol deliveries (Under no circumstances can I release the package to a neighbor or just leave it) and instead of the consignee I was put through to a winery out in California. Thankfully they got in touch with the customer and had them divert the shipment before I had to return to sender the package.
I've actually tried this! UPS operations management does apparently have the description of where my door is, because they can read it back to me when I call them, but the drivers don't seem to use it on the ground.
> As a driver I typically don't have your phone number.
This seems crazy to me! UPS and Fedex do have my phone number because I've registered for their delivery management programs. It boggles the mind that this isn't passed on to the driver.
Thanks for the inside baseball, it's fascinating to learn more about this process.
I guess the notes they can keep and the notes they put in the scanner are separate. Is the door a really really far walk or something? I can't imagine the drivers are just ignoring the note. I'm guessing that it's just not in the scanner. Really what I'd like to see is the ability for drivers to create/edit notes themselves, instead of having to rely on the operations folks to do it for them. Would be better to have all of the access codes in the scanner instead of a giant text message that we pass around
>Thanks for the inside baseball, it's fascinating to learn more about this process.
You're welcome! I still find it fascinating seeing how it all works. What happens in the hubs is basically a giant bucket sort with lots of conveyor belts and sweat
But, for home shipping, I've always lived in 2-3 flat apartment buildings, and Amazon's delivery service has been like a breath of fresh air. They always deliver to the correct location, they're usually conscientious about placing the package in an inconspicuous location if possible, and then you get a push notification on your phone. USPS does the same, but loses points for notifying us by ringing every single doorbell in the building and then walking away, typically during someone's baby's nap time.
UPS, for their part, will generally drop the package at the bottom of the steps, essentially right on the sidewalk. FedEx, not to be outdone, likes to leave it on the sidewalk in front of some random building a block down the street.
But if you can cut off the last mile, Amazon's "pick-up point" service beats UPS's or FedEx's hands down.
Amazon Lockers are 24hrs; never have line-ups; there's one outside every grocery store near me; and in a pinch, my own post office can be used as one, too. (Though I don't do that, because my post office is not 24hrs, and because there's a Locker directly on the way between my home and my office.)
FedEx and UPS, meanwhile, both bounce my packages to a warehouse at the airport (40 minutes away) or in a neighbouring exurb (50 minutes away), and only after first attempting to deliver them to my house (which will never work), with no option to send them straight to the pick-up location. (Yes, I can get the packages redirected from the airport warehouse to a pick-up location once they're already at the airport warehouse, but that means an extra two days of waiting for my package, and then I have to go to a pick-up point that's 20 minutes away from me anyway. I may as well go to the airport!)
I live in an apartment building with a flaky buzzer entry system and no lobby mailroom. "Pick-up from a nearby location" is the only viable option for me. Amazon nails it. Everybody else is way behind.
This is exactly the kind of example that makes vertical integration so often more consumer-friendly.
The last time it happened it was a Christmas gift and I didn't even know about it until the person it was delivered to IM'ed my wife using one of the neighborhood contact services. Turns out the delivery company even knew they delivered it to the wrong address because they put "delivered to XYZ instead of ZYX" in the delivery notes.
I live on a street with a lot of townhouses, so there's lots of places with similar addresses (3334B vs 3330B) so I understand how it could happen. However, it's never been a problem with UPS, Fedex, or USPS.
- extremely long delivery times of up to 3 weeks
- Quite a fes out-of-stocks (only anecdata from the last wesks)
- Shutting out FBA inbound deliveries
- Major changes for Amazon Logistics
No idea what's going on exactly, but as an ex-Amazonian I am puzzled by all this. Sure, the situation is extreme and it hit right after peak 2019, when Amazon operations are in the usual post-peak down. But still, that cannot be the only reason. maybe inventories are all wrong as demand patterns changed, and Amazon is over stocked on not-needed stuff and short stuff in high demand. Or they have trouble ramoing up to peak-levels again without the normal preparation period. I don't know, but to me at least, it seems Amazon is less flexible than it was a couple of years ago. But maybe that's just me, so.
They don't know if they will lose all their delivery drivers or if their warehouses will have anything inbound with shipping stopped...