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Comment by cameldrv | Hacker News Reader

If the argument is that civilians shouldn't wear N95 masks outside, but rather donate them to people who need them even more, fine.

However, if the argument is that you shouldn't wear a $1 mask, which provides substantial protection against COVID, because it's not necessary, I would refer you again to the 1000 people that died yesterday that didn't wear an N95 mask. The amount of mental gymnastics you have to do to hold this belief is frankly astonishing.

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There’s no mental gymnastics happening. You’re just ignoring what medical workers are saying and assuming your intuition is infallible. It’s easy to understand why it’s dangerous to deprive those workers of shields to benefit to yourself. And manufacturing cost is not the same as availability. We don’t have instantaneous infinite supplies of these.

If your assertion is "They wouldn't have died if they'd worn an N95 mask", I would refer you to basically any literature about what the point of wearing the masks are.

Your overwhelming condescension also make this conversation much harder than it needs to be. I would consider taking a walk and trying to relax.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2190272/

Table 6.

Wearing an N95 mask reduces your chance of contracting SARS by 91%.

I apologize if my frustration comes through here, but the data is very clear and people are dying in the thousands because they're not protecting themselves.

It feels as though arguments will be received with claims of "mental gymnastics", so I will just point out the differences in use and function between a face shield and an N95 mask. You're free to try and purchase a face shield if you'd like.

Best of luck.

Your question was about the effectiveness of N95 masks. Hopefully I've resolved that for you. As for the effectiveness of face shields, I don't have data on that, I just said it was likely to be effective, since it blocks larger droplets from hitting your face or being inhaled.

There's no luck involved, I purchased a face shield almost two months ago, although I usually just wear mask+goggles, gloves if necessary when I need to go out. The face shield is for if one of our family members gets sick and we need to care for each other. Then it will be mask+goggles+gloves+gown+face shield.

My question was not about the effectiveness of N95 masks in a vacuum, it was correcting your assertion that the people that have died in the hospital, did so because they didn't wear N95 masks. It is possible to wear an N95 mask incorrectly, or to contaminate yourself during the putting on/taking off process. The idea that N95 masks inherently make you immune to exposure is ridiculous. The people that died in the hospital could've very well worn N95 masks and still been exposed.

I also believe you're more naive than I originally thought. I think you need luck now more than ever.

I think it's pretty simple. If you don't get the virus, you don't go to the hospital or die in the hospital. If you wear an N95 mask, according to the best data available, you have a 91% smaller chance of catching the virus.

Yes, it's possible to make mistakes donning and duffing. However, that same meta-analysis also showed a large benefit for community use of masks, so actual use, not perfect use. To the extent that there is a problem with improper use, we should be teaching people how to use them instead of telling people not to wear them.

I never said wearing a mask made you immune. Seatbelts don't eliminate your risk either, but at this point only very backwards people drive a car without one.

BTW, as of today, COVID is the leading cause of death in America.

> I think it's pretty simple

Stopped reading after this. It's not.

> If you wear an N95 mask, according to the best data available, you have a 91% smaller chance of catching the virus.

Do you have a link please, because there's no way that's true.

They linked a study and then cherry picked some data from it. IIRC it was a controlled study of ~20 people, and the actual reduction % was "50-90% reduction" where every person ALSO washed their hands a minimum of 10 times per day.

I would also assert that they probably trained each participant on how to use the masks effectively, whereas I suspect OP (and most of the N95 mask hoarders) would contaminate them to the point of being useless.

edit Ah, you responded in a different place saying basically what I just said wrt contamination. Good on you.

Speculation doesn’t make you right. “Likely to” counts for not much.

It’s sad you made that purchase. I wonder if that deprived a doctor or nurse of one. If they died, you’ve essentially condemned them to that. Is your own selfish neurosis worth that?

I know you’re being facetious, but I certainly hope he does no such purchasing.

Eh. That poster believes they've "figured it out", and those that've died just "didn't figure it out." Reasoning won't work, and unfortunately they're able to do whatever they want. I hope Apple has aggressively limited how much PPE they'll waste on civilians.

From your link, about table 6:

> wearing N95 masks (0.09, 0.03 to 0.30, NNT=3, 2.37 to 4.06);

NNT=3 means "number needed to treat". This means that to see the effect at all in one person you need three people to correctly wear a mask.

If 99 people correctly wear an N95 mask only 33 of them have a reduced chance of catching covid-19.

Here are photos of people who have correctly worn an N95 / FPP3 mask. I don't think most of the general public can tolerate this.

https://twitter.com/LondonNurse2015/status/12472750559874252...

https://twitter.com/jbon93/status/1247626644208189444/photo/...

https://twitter.com/RochesterKaren/status/124644595651562700...

https://twitter.com/gabbyjackson95x/status/12479391789623255...

We also know that "doffing" (taking off) the PPE is difficult, and that many healthcare professionals are infected when they take it off. I don't think most members of the public can comply with the complicated donning and doffing protocols.

You need to look into that first one. It's obviously photoshopped. The originals are uncomfortable, but not like that. Here's one of the originals: https://twitter.com/error4null1/status/1241896271927009281/p...

More importantly, the imprints and bruises are from full-mask respirators and goggles (and one FPP3 mask), not N95 masks. Have you ever worn one (and been fitted for one)? I have, when I worked as an EMT years ago. I also have worn one N99 or N95 mask for years when cleaning out my guinea pig cages. It's not that bad.

In terms of doffing the masks, it's pretty straight-forward: To remove the mask: remove it from behind (do not touch the front of mask); discard immediately in a closed bin; clean hands with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water (via WHO).

I'm not sure what's driving your passionate anti-mask campaign (N95 and otherwise), but I urge you to look into what doctors and public health experts have started recommending after considering the evidence and what we know about how this infection is spreading:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-si... (US CDC) https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-si... https://www.ucsfhealth.org/education/should-i-wear-a-mask-to... (UCSF) http://www.chinacdc.cn/en/COVID19/202002/P020200310326809462... (Chinese Centers for Disease Control - "Wear a mask when going out.")

Absolutely stay home if you can. It's the most effective way to avoid spreading or contracting Covid-19. But wear a mask if/when you must go out (to grocery store, drugstore, essential job, etc).

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