Minecraft creators’ next project is a strategy game: Scrolls | Hacker News Reader

Minecraft creators’ next project is a strategy game: Scrolls

pcgamer.com

71 pointsggordan27 comments

It should be noted that this isn't technically the Minecraft creators next project, it's a project done by a different team in the studio he formed. Mojang was formed after Minecraft's success, he hired his friend Jakob (among others) and he's leading the game -- Notch is still working on Minecraft.

> Mojang was formed after Minecraft's success

No. Mojang AB was formed in May 2009. That's the same month as Minecraft's original public release, long before its success.

By formed I mean as a development studio, not as a legal entity.

For context: Mojang started having employees in November/December 2010. At that point Minecraft already sold a few thousand copies per day. (It’s still selling several thousand copies per day, nearly 11,000 in the last 24 hours.)

Thank you noting that because I was just like 'Wait. How will they manage another game when Minecraft is still in Alpha stadium?'

Indeed, and also: What about trust in pre-purchasing a beta?

I mean, Minecraft is a very interesting game as it is, but I'd guess that most people pre-purchasing it (and it is still offered under that description) expect it to be developed further, and probably count(ed) on a sizable share of their money being used towards further development...

(but good to hear that Notch is still working on it)

Mojang is printing money so fast I'd be terrified if they tried to apply even a modest fraction of it at the game. Scaling a team like that is a great way to ruin a functional forumla.

Didn't cryptic comet do something similar with Armageddon's empire and solium infernum?

Also - cryptic comet deserves a mention - last I checked it was a one man show, (may have added 1 more person)and he had launched 2 lovingly created card based strategy games.

The first was pretty good fun to play (post-apoc earth empire building with card games! quite fun), and the second was very ambitious (you played as a prince of hell, and an entire meta game of subterfuge underlied your attempt to take-over hell.)

Whats cool about it is that I can easily see him with a little help getting his games on the mobile markets and crushing a lot of the competition. Worth a look - His blog on how he designs his games is here - http://www.crypticcomet.com/blog/ Website - http://www.crypticcomet.com/

Solium Infernum is awesome. Fans of strategy games should definitely check it out.

Interesting. A mate of mine also came up with an online MMO CCG concept. Naturally he wanted me to be his programmer in exchange for equity and well, that's about as far as things got.

Done properly, you can combine the variable-reinforcement ratio addictiveness of gambling, CCG deck purchase or WoW raiding with the massive cashflow potential of downloadable goods. Like CCGs it could be a license to print money, but with even lower costs.

Computer-only CCGs also open up design space that can't be done for real-life card games. Picture "destroy a random permanent" -- that would be impossible to do if you're sitting with cards in front of you, but trivial if it's on a computer. There are other game mechanics that are possible to do in real-life, but are annoying enough that they're not worth it. Imagine a mechanic that requires you to reveal your hand and take an action based on the average cost of the cards in it -- annoying to do if you've got a five or six cards in hand, but trivial on the computer.

In some ways it's a shame Magic: The Gathering Online has the same cards they print: I would love to see what the developers could come up with for computer-based mechanics.

The MtGO game was constrained by remaining backwards compatible with the table-top game, overlaid with that damn fool idea about exchanging the virtual and real cards[1]. That it worked at all is basically a software engineering miracle.

For me the real challenge, when going from tabletop games to computer games, is that in a table game it is trivial to have a rule-modifying rule; in a computer this is a source of substantial complexity.

Think about it: most of the player genius in CCGs is deck construction. That is, studying the rules, studying the cards, and mentally simulating the interaction of multiple rule changes.

Most computer games don't have rule-changing rules, or very few of them due to the cost of special-case coding. They generally resemble CRUD databases with some element of chance applied.

To me the central, and interesting, challenge for a computerised CCG is to capture that rule-modifying rule capability. This might be an area where the dynamism of Lisp is perfectly suited.

[1] It reminds me in retrospect of that camera Kodak produced which took film pictures, but had a screen on the back to show you what you'd taken. That is, a self-defeating and half-hearted attempt to deal with a disruptive change to a fat, profitable industry.

With a highly profitable paper card business, Wizards has always been concerned with cannibalizing paper sales and pissing off the physical card distributors. MtGO players are largely also paper card players - in particular, the intensely competitive ones who are willing to pay $4 per virtual booster for an online venue to test out competition decks - so matching the paper rules was essential. At the same time, the way they avoided problems with the paper distributors was to cater to the hard-core players and ignore the casual market.

TL;DR: Wizards is too dependent on paper card sales to design a next-gen online TCG.

You are absolutely correct about their position, which reminds me very much of Kodak throughout the 90s. Kodak was tied to film. Even though their own staff foresaw digital photography, they were bound by their own economics and basically wished for digital to go away -- hence their heartbreakingly ridiculous Advantix Preview (the hybrid film/digital camera I mentioned above).

There were effectively cards that do 'destroy a random card'. [1] There are also several cards that result in searching the deck (and then reshuffling it) which require time/effort and yet were made.

[1] http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=chaos+orb

Arguably one card (and then more cards in their joke sets) that doesn't actually randomly choose, which they won't reprint [1], and which they've banned because of the way it works [2].

And the cards that force reshuffling do require time and effort, but not in a way that breaks the game. They wouldn't make a card that required you to shuffle your deck five times a turn, but they could do so online. [3]

[1]It's on the Restricted List -- cards that won't ever be reprinted, but not because of power; to let the cards keep their value. http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Article.aspx?x=magic/produc...

[2]http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Article.aspx?x=magic/faq/un...

[3]What would that card be, you ask? I have no idea. It doesn't matter for the sake of this discussion.

This looks promising, it'll be interesting to see how they make it rely less on chance.

Is there a reason why this game needs to look like it's a cardgame when in reality it's not? That seems like a slightly clumsy metaphor for an epic war/battle in a fantasy universe. If you're making a card-game, then you're stuck with that. But if you're making a video game, why limit yourself like that?

The fact this has been announced so early on in the piece and has received such wide publication does not bode well. In all likelihood this game is a couple of years away from release. So it is going to be hard to live up to the expectations that are going to build up in that period (not impossible, see SC2). Then again this could be a calculated risk . .

Well, if Mojang do what they did with Minecraft it'll be out as an early alpha and then they'll develop it from there.

It would be interesting to see how that method works now that they have a million interested users on day one.

I am amazed that an idea like this hasn't been completed before.

I read this article and realized that this is the same idea I started working on 8 years ago as a high school freshman. I just didn't have the experiences or resources to finish it or do it right.

I just dug up the code though and posted it on my blog if anyone wants to see what a freshman in high school wrote 8 years ago in VB6. http://www.ra726.net/blog/?p=119

I can't wait to play this, I've been waiting to play something like it for a long time now.

Just goes to show what you hear here all the time, just ship it. An idea can be great but it goes nowhere if you don't do anything about it.

Scrolls sounds just like Spectromancer, from Richard Garfield and Skaff Elias (of MTG) and Alexey Stankevich (creator of Astral Tournament). You should check it out: http://www.spectromancer.com

Actually, there is another startup that recently released a similar online TCG called Shadow Era:

http://www.shadowera.com/

Both games seem to borrow more from the World of Warcraft TCG than MTG. Shadow Era is still at an early stage, but IMO quite enjoyable so far.

Sounds very similar to the trading card game inside of FreeRealms (free to play, www.freerealms.com).

If you like trading card games, it's worth checking out.

I tried that, and as a trading card game it's pretty good.

Unfortunately, Sony has utterly crippled it:

* You can pay extra (beyond subscription) to get super-cards.

* You are not allowed to trade most cards.

* Especially not the bought cards.

* Because their chat censor all numbers, semi-dirty words, words that from a distance can look like a semi-dirty word, it is completely impossible to converse with your opponent.

Can't you pay extra in any TCG to get super-cards? That's the whole business model behind trading card games.

I'm 100% sure that the only cards you cannot trade are the promotional cards you get for free. All the bought cards are tradeable inside of the TCG. You cannot trade in the 3d world, you have to use the TCG interface.

The chat filter is pretty restrictive but since it is a kids game I think their hands are tied if they want to keep it safe for kids.

They say you'll be able to earn cards in single-player mode and sell them in in-game auctions; but how would this possibly be secured...?

It could be single-player but still played on the server.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com