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Comment by lmilcin | Hacker News Reader

Grow fast and don't care about your employees. How employees can stay loyal after company does this at the time their employees need them most?

I saw a Polish meme recently:

During candidate interview:

Interviewer: So... is there any question you would like to ask us?

Candidate: Yeah, how did you treat your employees during coronavirus?

Interviewer: Uhmm...

I hope people take notice and will stay away from companies that have nice words and "loyalty" for their employees only when it suits them.

Recently I red how Suzuki did not laid anybody due to 2008 financial crisis and instead cut whatever they could (like R&D, participation in sporting events, etc.) just to ensure employees have jobs.

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On the subject of employee loyalty:

At a previous company, we were all called in for a mandatory employee meeting. As we sat around in the office "living room", the CEO talk about how we were going to pivot, and went around the room telling everyone what their new role would be.

He skipped a few people.

When he finished, he thanked the "extra" people for their help but told them that this was their last day at work. Then he went around the room and gave each of them a chance to say what their time at the company had meant to them, so we got to see our freshly fired friends stammer out stuff like "I thank you for this wonderful learning opportunity, and, uh, can I have a reference?" through choked-back tears.

The rest of us started looking for jobs that same day. The CEO was shocked and offended that we'd walk out on him when he needed us the most. Well, if we're not treated with respect and loyalty, what would you expect?

This happened because deep inside he was really a jerk. Maybe he thought this was neat stunt.

"Normal" people consciously or subconsciously understand that people have modus operandi and however they treat other people can happen to you in a similar situation.

"Jerk" has no empathy by definition and that's what might be explaining their surprise to how people reacted even though to a normal person this is all completely logical. It just did not occur this might be a problem because their system of value does not recognize it as a problem (unless they are being fired) and at the same time their system of value is not concerned with people who might find it an issue but are no threat.

If I witnessed something like this I would be looking for backdoor exit, too.

Suzuki and other Japanese companies well known for how they treat employments as long-term relationships. And American companies are known for the opposite.

It would be interesting to see how Japan recovers economically relatively to the US post Corona crisis.

> Suzuki and other Japanese companies well known for how they treat employments as long-term relationships.

There are many, many contexts and scenarios where this exact same sentence can be said in a highly negative way. In this instance it is great, but I can assure you that many Japanese workers experience the dark side of this mindset (e.g., stay in the office as long as possible; don't "shirk duties" by taking time for yourself; god help you if you're a woman; etc.).

I have no doubt this is not everyone's experience, but it's also not uncommon.

There probably does not exist perfect company.

What we can do is to learn how companies solve the problem.

Was the layoff necessary? Was the form of the layoff necessary?

Probably not. Probably with all those billions of investments you could have made choices that will leave you with more than paper thin margins or maybe you could beg your investors for more to keep the company afloat.

This could have easily be a formative experience for the company bringing everybody together and motivating for years.

I don't know if we can draw a parallel between great japanese automobile companies with their software counterparts; But thinking about how japanese motorcycles are known for its longetivity and less maintanence compared to other country made motorcycles, I feel like there is a correlation here and the way companies like suzuki treats their employees is imbued in their DNA for delivering motorcycles that emphasize on longetivity ...

You've got it correct -- that is Japanese culture. Perhaps there are exceptions, it wouldn't surprise me if they exist -- but the norm is what you wrote.

> How employees can stay loyal after company does this at the time their employees need them most?

People there have joined a company that was founded just 3 years ago. The fastest company ever to reach unicorn status. This company is extreme by any metric you look at. No one there has had any "career" there. Even for the founder the time spent at bird is "short" when you look at it form a professional point of view. So expecting that kind of company to have a paternal view on their employees, like an industrial giant will have for their worker who spent 30 years working there, is just strange.

If you join a rocket ship, you should definitely expect turbulences during the journey. Account for that or join a more establish company, none of those fired 30% of their workforce overnight because of covid.

There are numerous stories of startups that do in fact care for their employees.

This company is not a rocket ship. They have an app and drop a bunch of scooters on the sidewalk.

Nowhere this type of business requires to have paper thin margins and disposable people unless you make it so as an owner/investor of the company.

> Recently I red how Suzuki did not laid anybody due to 2008 financial crisis and instead cut whatever they could (like R&D, participation in sporting events, etc.) just to ensure employees have jobs.

That's more of a Japanese cultural thing though -- lifetime employment but also lifetime service.

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