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Comment by ceejayoz | Hacker News Reader

Another nail in the coffin for the "masks don't work" side of things.

Yesterday, the White House stated that they are about to issue revised guidelines around masks likely today or tomorrow. They are likely to advise people to wear cloth masks.

At this point, I don't think anyone is really arguing that "masks don't work." Dr. Birx is worried that people will see masks as a substitute for other measures like social distancing, hand washing, and avoiding touching your face.

There is a growing "grassroots" movement advocating that everyone wear homemade masks -- #masks4all

Makes sense not to wait for the CDC on this on. Every day makes a huge difference.

See https://shouldiwearafacemask.com for a summary.

> At this point, I don't think anyone is really arguing that "masks don't work."

Yes, it's becoming an untenable position now.

People were taking a very different tone a month ago with "we should all be wearing masks when out" suggestions.

Hell, a week ago, HN was happily flagging pro-mask stuff off the front page with regularity.

> Dr. Birx is worried that people will see masks as a substitute for other measures like social distancing, hand washing, and avoiding touching your face.

Just one point, but I have an interesting observation here:

Earlier this week I finally found some masks, and last night wore one to the grocery store for the first time. It's about a 10-minute walk each way, and I encounter 5-6 dog-walkers in that distance.

Usually the dog-walkers don't bother with social distancing, but while I was wearing the mask about half of them went out of their way to go around me.

Yeah, they were probably worried that you were sick.

But overall, it helps signal to everyone that you are taking precautions seriously.

And the more people who wear masks, the less stigma there is associated with wearing them.

The macro impact can be huge:

"If 50% of the population were to wear masks, only 50% of the population would be infected by the virus. Once 80% of the population wears a mask, the outbreak can be stopped immediately." https://www.researchgate.net/publication/258525804_Testing_t...

The question is why it was ever discouraged, and why it's taken so long for authorities to admit they were wrong. (Supply shortage seems like a terrible excuse to me given the simplicity of masks and the DPA etc.) It is incredibly obvious that masks do something and that their use helps explain the successful response to the pandemic in Singapore and Korea.

It's also something that will need to be mandated to have an effect. Authorities are all too happy to order workers to stay home and create incredible hardship for themselves, but ignore common sense measures like mask usage.

nobody said masks don't work - the article doesn't contradict the fact that masks don't protect you very good against other infected people next to you. This article just repeats that it's known that masks help to prevent spreading of the disease if you have symptions and need to go outside. At least here in Germany nobody ever spoke out against that.

WHO said masks don't work

Do you have a link to this statement? I've primarily seen various authorities mention the primacy of hand washing, vs saying masks are ineffective.

Don't know about gp, but here's what who seems to be saying now:

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2...

Surgeon General https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/12337257852839321...

Here's what the WHO site[1] says:

• If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected 2019-nCoV infection.

• Wear a mask if you are coughing or sneezing.

• Masks are effective only when used in combination with frequent hand-cleaning with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.

• If you wear a mask, then you must know how to use it and dispose of it properly.

Nowhere do I see: "Masks don't work".

[1] https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2...

I think the first point is what most people are talking about when they're saying the WHO said "masks don't work".

"Masks don't work" being short hand for "masks will only help you in these very narrowly defined circumstances."

Even the third point is likely to discourage people from using masks. I find it difficult to believe that people with a mask, even if used poorly, see absolutely no benefit from the mask. The mask's presence on your face should already make you less likely to touch your face. Furthermore, the novel coronavirus is not the only thing to worry about. All of the other illnesses are still abound and will likely make you more susceptible to the novel coronavirus.

Exactly

The sense is that they're telling the general public not to use them, and the general public (and apparently, government figures) got that whiff.

It's a folly that will be remembered and looked back negatively in history. One of many poor decisions by people in power.

Surgeon General also said masks aren't effective:

https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/12337257852839321...

If you have the disease and don't have symptoms, you are still infectious, and this is why masks for everyone is one way to combat this virus.

Unfortunately the wayback machine didn't cache the CDC's page on guidelines until recently, but an article in US based Vox from February says:

https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/2/13/21128209/coronavirus-fe...

"Currently, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) advises against people in the US using face masks because most people who aren’t trained medical professionals may not know how to fit them properly, and the risk of exposure in the US is so low to begin with."

Many people spoke out prominently against wearing masks in Germany, including Christian Drosten [1], der Spiegel [2] and Robert Koch Institute.

[1] https://twitter.com/c_drosten/status/1241659738569539584 [2] https://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/medizin/corona-krise-die...

Yes, if you read between the lines the statements were often hedged, and not strictly speaking wrong: you should not wear masks (because healthcare workers need them more), masks dont protect (you) from coronavirus, there is no study that shows masks protect against the novel coronavirus (specifically). The general public just reads that you should not wear masks, period.

Some people experienced hostility for wearing masks in public. You can get laughed at or coughed at. Asians wearing masks are avoided like they have the plague. And an old lady sneered at me (no mask) for keeping the required 2m safety distance in the supermarket, as if I was an idiot.

That being said, most people are behaving exemplary and respecting physical distancing, and I hope the attitudes regarding masks will shift with time.

My old lady thanked me for crossing the street as she was proceeding south and me north.

I pumped both fists in the air and exclaimed "we're not dead yet!" and she laughed.

You live in a big city perhaps.

https://twitter.com/surgeon_general/status/12337257852839321...

"Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS! They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus."

The US Surgeon General, a little over a month ago.

They help prevent spreading when asymptomatic too. One of the key components to Taiwan's success.

Then you must not have been talking to people. I’ve had to argue with way too many people since January who believe masks don’t work. I don’t know if people here are living in a pro-mask bubble or what, because there are too many people who believe they don’t work.

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