The decline in computer science students (part 2)
brucefwebster.com
brucefwebster.com
I guess the question is then: how does computer science pull a physics? Does there need to be some analogue of Feynman + Hawking etc, where theres both epic insight and just generally an outgoing ridiculous persona and also some reasonably good popular expositions of deep ideas?
What ideas in CS are as interesting to the layman as the most interesting parts of physics? Tell a layman about black holes, galactic collisions, big bangs, quantum weirdness, nuclear fusion, or any of those other things in physics which are unimaginably (to us) big, small, hot, cold, fast, slow, or weird, and for the most part (with the exception of particularly dull laymen) they'll be fascinated. How much can you tell a layman about CS that will get the same reaction?
She was totally bored.
Then I switched into how Rome is awesome, and Instabul was a romantic place, cools things to do in Europe blah blah.... a little bit more interesting to her as she had never travelled in europe.
I quit dating her after that night. I was "sick" for a while, then in "Boston" for a long time....
I just couldn't date a person with that low level of curiosity.
Anyways, you would be suprised on how layman might be totally un-interested to even these cosmical events. Something it is just beyond some people, it is like foreing stuff, that they don't need to understand, and trying to understand will only give them headaches.
Moral of the story: When dating, never trade intelligence for beauty. You will regret it as soon as the eye candy wears off.
My wife and kids and I have a rule - I'll watch whatever 10 minute video they want to show me on YouTube if I get to show them a 10 minute clip from Cosmos. Let's just say they that their about at their limit of "Star Stuff" :-) But I don't think any less of their intelligence or curiosity just because Carl Sagan isn't their thing. My wife knows much more about philosophy then I and my kids interest in biology and psychology is greater than mine.
EDIT: vapid eyecandy is good for one thing, and then it is seldom good.
But that said, the practice of science, at a day to day level, doesn't even remotely approach the level of satisfaction you get from a good hack.
I guess we'll have to disagree, but I think artificial intelligence, machine learning, complexity theory (PCP theorem, zero knowledge proofs, etc), and algorithmic information theory (Chatin's number, etc.) are as interesting and profound as anything in the basic sciences. CS also has the advantage that much of the field is still in development, unlike almost every other field of science.
I'm really more of a scientist by training.
No offense, but completing most of an undergrad physics degree doesn't make you a "scientist by training". To be a properly trained scientist, I think you need to have done multiple pieces of significant, original research, and more than likely have a PhD.
And if math is your thing, that's fine. Study what you like. Although I'll admit I'm more than a little confused by your assertion that basic science is no longer "in development"...
For what it's worth, he did start with "No offense, but..." which doesn't really sound like flaming.
When I'm explaining computer science to someone who wants a capsule explanation, I don't tell the "computer science studies the problem X Y and Z, along with their generalizations", I say:
"Computer Science studies the limits of human thought, trying to understand exactly how hard a particular idea is to think, and what sort of problems it is reasonable (for various notions corresponding to best, average, worst case complexity)to ask a person to solve".
IT is a very broad industry and CS is very relevant to a significant subset of it.
Basically, to most 'regular' employers they need a "tech guy" (or girl) who generally understands the domain of their needs. Or maybe I am applying for crap jobs - who knows? But I do know that typically when "cold" applying for positions, the two are usually considered equivocal.
I have been out of school for approximately 3 months now, have submitted well over 100 resumes, and cannot net even a remedial hold-over job screwing in PCI cards and fixing users' desktops. This afternoon I am throwing on a pair of khakis and heading out to see if I can net a job waiting tables - woot!
P.S. That last sentence is literal, in about an hour I am going for a restaurant interview... man, I am really happy I listened to my parents and elders and made sure to go to college, so that now I have 35k in debt and no job with which to pay it back with.
I got out of school with my BS in CS right at bottom of the .com bust. 2+ months of resume sending and nothing, eventually I got "network engineer" (glorified PC repairman) job. It was fun for about a month, then it got repetitive. 6+ month later I finally got a break and started (for slightly less $) as junior software engineer.
So yeah right now it feels like your CS is worth less then a bunch of certificates, but don't worry things change and in the long term you are better of.
In fact waiting tables might be better then what I did. It could pay more if you get lots of tips and you can keep your skills sharp outside of work, and the temptation to specialize in your new job and forget CS isn't there.
In summary: Suck it up kid!
I've come to the conclusion that the best thing anyone can do for themselves to get into the corporate world is an internship during one's college years. Most places hire their new talent from their intern pool.
In the past, it was much harder to program, because the resources were harder to come by. Now, you really can't say "I never had the opportunity to work with that programming language", because pretty much everything is there for the taking.
Perhaps you should consider quality, not quantity.
I have been through a similar situation but have never sent out more than one resume at a time, ever. And every one was custom.
Whenever you find a prospective opportunity, learn everything you can about it. Try to get a personal introduction if you can. Write a cover letter and resume that specifically targets what they want, not what you want. Avoid headhunters (if you can) and follow up, follow up, follow up. Use any means you have to uncover opportunities (some call this "networking"). Better yet, get someone to create a position for you. (I know this is tough, but so what.)
I see entry level positions all the time. Be prepared to move if you have to. Take the waiter job and then plug away for an IT job in your spare time. I know there's something out there for you, persevere and find it.
Oh, and concerning moving: my wife is an accountant here and is clearing 60, so yea, not really an option... luckily she can support my broke-a for now.
If you're trapped in Alabama, edw519 makes good suggestions about personalizing your pitch and ibsulon, below, about broadening your search to 'adjacent' positions that could lead to coding.
To build the kind of rep that could get you remote work, do publicly observable projects, on your own or as part of open-source projects. You might also try doing small freelance jobs via other cities' Craigslist, Rentacoder, Elance, Odesk. (You're competing against some very cheap overseas coders but you've got the language and culture down, a first-world degree, and still live in one of the cheapest areas of the US.)
I would say I hear back from companies I sent my resume to 75% of the time - and out of those companies, I eventually get offers 75% of the time. Salary typically hovers around 50-60K depending on location and the nature of job.
Oh and I did not graduate from a technical school - no certificates, and my degree in CS is not even a BS, it's a BA because I graduated from the liberal arts college. Your mileage may vary, that's all I am saying.
Now, in fairness, I understand that time is money and no one wants to waste time, so I am guessing I need to suck it up and get in on some projects to build my portfolio - I kinda thought thats what my first job out of college would do (teach me and build me), but looks like that comes after considerable personal development.
I might advise someone to get a major in Biology and a minor in CS these days. In the corporate world, as far as I can tell, you are only as good as your domain.
Can't get any referrals.
Besides Microsoft and the rest are scouring the streets of third world cities like bombay and Calcutta picking up throwaway kids and teaching them how to program.
Only one out of 50 makes it but when they kick in they only cost $15 an hour.
Who the heck needs those expensive kids with Computer Science degrees.