Health-insurance premiums could rise 40% or more next year
nytimes.com
nytimes.com
This was to be expected, and it won’t be well received. It’s also not necessary, and shouldn’t happen. Much of the US Healthcare expense when insurance companies are involved is fake.
For example, last week I got a medical statement from my insurance. The total cost was a couple grand. I paid 20$ co-pay, and insurance paid a couple hundred. The remainder was “negotiated down, look at this great value your insurance provided!”
If I were to pay out of pocket the 220$ instead of my health insurance premium that month I could have easily paid it. The same is true for emergency surgeries, the actual medical cost of things like brain surgery is around 10-15k. Atleast at some providers, and not hospitals that gouge.
My point here is - Insurance companies have spend decades rewriting the healthcare system to their advantage. They’ve spent years boosting the cost of healthcare, while paying only a fraction and making the remainder of the money disappear. Hospitals have spent years reducing costs while charging 100k for some surgeries in hopes they’ll get even 20k. And have 80k “negotiated”.
There’s plenty of money in the system between insurance companies and healthcare systems. The resolution here isn’t single-payer. The resolution is to force insurance companies to pay their fair share instead of hoarding money.
There’s no reason they should increase their rates right now. They should be breaking into their reserves to handle this.
Of course, each head of the hydra points at the other two and claims it isn't the problem.
Its about what is paid. The United States has non-discriminatory laws in place where healthcare providers can’t charge two groups different pricing. So what happens is hospitals and such charge insurance 100k for a service, and then discount it down to 20k. The cost of the service is reported as 100k, but the paid amount is 20k.
Because of this individuals are forced to pay 100k if they don’t have insurance. Or if they don’t negotiate a rate on healthcare. This creates an environment where individuals feel they MUST have health insurance. Because of that health insurance companies are treated like they’re essential and can’t fail.
It’s all a fake fucking sham. None of this is necessary.
The insurance company side of this pissing contest is "nobody forces hospitals to list insane prices, certainly not us, but we can give you the leverage to make sure they don't stick -- good luck managing that on your own!"
The issue is that in the US the health insurers do way more than risk pooling. They also do gatekeeping, discounting, & provisioning. Plus there is an asinine indirection layer where their customers are employers instead of the covered.
In a properly functioning health market there would be a very important role for insurance, our current market is just so insane it’s hard to see it.
Collective plans, like those provided by your employer, would risk-pool, but then should we really attribute the pooling to insurance companies?
So yes? We should give credit to insurance for providing value in the real world.
I agree that we should give insurance companies credit for the value they accidentally create in the world that we live in -- so long as we keep in mind that the value creation was predicated on their inability to find & leverage information.
However, going forward in a world of increasingly available information, do you think it is a good idea to rely on their inability to find & leverage information? I sure don't.
They are the central agents of information discovery and we all reap the benefits of the massive amount effort they put into those activities.
If anything I think we should be endeavoring to make health insurance more like traditional insurance to provide those efficiencies more broadly
Universal Healthcare isn’t part of this conversation, or this issue. So I’m not even going to waste time on it.
Your personal Overton window is smaller than the current political reality.
No, they were not. Conversation does not mean “oh anything that involves health insurance anywhere in the world at any time”.
Saying they're all the same is a bit like saying all foreigners speak the same language.
My point is more that there is no single other well thought out system that works in every other country.
Those 30+ systems are very different from each other. Most of them are also in some kind of crisis, if you ask local public opinion.
I'm arguing against the simplistic "let's just convert to the other system" idea. This isn't like going metric.
Despite what you say, it can be fixed, and can be resolved.
Last I heard health insurers weren't particularly profitable, and I'd be surprised if they have reserves of that magnitude.
Very happy to be shown wrong with facts though!
And already, US healthcare spending is at least twice that of other developed countries, at arguably much reduced availability to the average American.
as an outsider, the inability of the USA to change its healthcare system is baffling.
It’s a textbook tragedy of the commons example.
Maybe I'm dense but it sounds a lot less like many commoners taking advantage of a common shared resource to the point of destruction. More like "corporate socialism", "regulatory capture", or "corruption"
then you have most fulltime employees getting insurance through their employer. even the ones on shitty plans are somewhat protected from seeing the full costs because the employer doesn't usually disclose their share of premiums. I have a decent high-deductible plan that I pay zero premiums for; I have literally no idea how much it costs and no real way to find out (short of harassing our benefits manager).
on top of this, you have the powerful institutions/individuals who are making real money of the situation and lobby to perpetuate it. the small subset of the population that isn't more or less apathetic faces an uphill battle to change anything.
It's not tragedy of the commons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons
This is an example of an inefficient system with powerful stakeholders working to preserve the gravy train that's developed around it.
Perhaps the better public policy jargon to use would be logic of collective action, in the sense that the profiteers are the special interest group and the rest of us are the diffuse group, but the concepts are pretty conceptually related in my opinion.
But on the insurance side, it has come to more closely resemble a legalized protection racket. You never know what it's going to actually cost you, you and your family members can be "hung out over a bridge" by the system, and when you really need the protection, the system decides what is protection and how much you can have. It needs to end. It's hollowing out the vitality of the country in its increasing conflict-of-mission.
I'm not saying the US is perfect, but it does have some benefits other countries do not.
The US in finances provides 60% of the worlds medical research. We produce 40% of the worlds medical journals, and research.
People bitch about the United States healthcare being this or that. But what they’re really saying is our healthcare is too expensive, bloated in cost, and inaccessible to lower income and at risk individuals. Which I would agree.
The more things change, the more they stay the same...
Italy, on the other hand...
It is incredibly frustrating to need to go to the urgent care for strep throat or something and then not have any idea how much it will cost afterwards, and also have a health plan with a $2000 deductible and $4000 out of pocket max. This is literally the garbage that we in the USA have to deal with all the time.
Isn't that stuff all defined though? I just looked at my insurance, and it clearly states Urgent Care visit is $65 and a Strep Lab test is $28 (both out of pocket, after insurance costs).
Granted, getting costs on something more complicated is more difficult, but there's still the defined deductible and out of pocket maximums that can be useful.
Some states have passed legislation which somewhat protects against this however here is a good example of it https://www.google.com/amp/s/khn.org/news/even-with-insuranc...
https://www.politifact.com/article/2013/jan/28/federal-spend...
The spending is almost entirely on the elderly. Cuts that matter mean less for them. They've already got Medicare so there's no "wasteful" insurance company to save on eliminating.
Why not have "Medicare for all"?
Like every other Western country.
Perhaps a middle ground is to have it like the FDIC, which covers depositors not banks. As I understand it, if a bank goes under, the FDIC takes it over and runs it until a suitable buyer can be found.
I’m not really sure what health insurer roles are in Switzerland, since the cantons heavily regulate premiums and care. Maybe a Swiss could make light of the situation.
All insurance offered at a standard price, subsidized by government, that covers the exact same things by law for every single person and can't be cancelled... who cares whether you're nominally dealing with the government or a private entity?
Medicare is insufficient coverage. Almost all folks on Medicare need supplemental insurance, or a state plan to actually get the care they need. Medicare under pays on claims, typically under the costs of providing care. Every industry group, union, medical association, who has looked at all the various plans has said it would lead to more hospital bankruptcies, particularly in rural areas.
Now, if you want to break the current system and force a government take over of the whole system it's not a bad idea, but selling it as something that would give folks the care they need is very disingenuous.
https://www.vox.com/2019/4/10/18304448/bernie-sanders-medica...
Medicare is NOT good insurance. Its reimbursement rates for hospitals is lower than their costs, and it doesn't fully cover people, it only covers 80%.
Like the person you replied to said: Most people on Medicare need to buy supplemental private insurance - it's called Medicare Advantage, and it may be government funded.
We need good insurance, and Medicare is NOT good insurance.
Public option is a fine transition.
So Medicare for all will solve nothing.
> The goal of the ACA’s temporary reinsurance program was to stabilize individual market premiums during the early years of new market reforms (e.g. guaranteed issue). The temporary program is in place from 2014 through 2016. The program transfers funds to individual market insurance plans with higher-cost enrollees in order to reduce the incentive for insurers to charge higher premiums due to new market reforms that guarantee the availability of coverage regardless of health status.
https://www.kff.org/health-reform/issue-brief/explaining-hea...
That's so cynically "privatize the gains, socialize the losses" that I'm sure the lizards will love it!
The example that was at the top of my mind when I made that claim was the cherry picking, because at this point in my life I'm a cherry, so that's what I have experience with. It's the situation where insurance companies all provide first year discounts, encouraging companies to switch every year, and then make getting set up a hassle so that relatively healthy people forego interaction with the medical system entirely.
Reinsurance wouldn't fix that problem, but that problem is much less pressing than the "dump cancer patients" problem.
It’s always just an excuse to screw more people and these companies should be abolished.
In each case, both sides are going to try as hard as they can to isolate the losses to the other party. In situations where their bargaining power and leverage are balanced, both parties will bear some of the loss. In cases where one side has much more economic power, well, you can see where this is going.
In the insurance and health care markets, barring radical restructuring, it will come down to state regulators to ensure that the costs come out well-balanced. Some state boards are going to find this easier to do than others, but I don't think it will trend out on left-right political lines.
>"The potential impacts detailed in this report reflect what could happen absent decisive federal action. If these impacts are not mitigated, the public health and economic consequences to consumers, small and large employers and health insurers are potentially staggering, including:
• Consumers and employees not getting needed testing or treatments due to cost barriers, both for COVID-19 but also for other health conditions.
• Employers no longer being able to offer affordable coverage, or dramatically shifting costs to employees.
• Consumers and employers no longer being able to afford coverage, leading to employer groups dropping coverage or individuals deciding to go uninsured.
• Even more unsubsidized marketplace enrollees being priced out of individual markets.
• Small insurers risk insolvency, and if they close, put covered consumers at financial risk, damaging competition that benefits consumers and the employers that purchase on behalf of millions of Americans.
• Dramatic cost increases, many of which will be borne by the federal government in the form of higher Advanced Premium Tax Credits (APTC), or by both federal and state governments paying for increased Medicaid enrollment as individuals and employers drop coverage"
Aren't almost all of these things not only already true but have also been true for years now?
Don't they every year? Not even kidding.
Diversity in this case is on healthiness and age axes rather than gender or racial axes.
I checked mine, and the past 3 annual increases were 7.7%, 13.3% and 6.9%.
edit: I should add I'm on an individual plan purchased directly from an insurer, not a group or employer plan.
". Lee warned that insurers are likely to seek rates that are double their additional costs from the virus. If their costs go up 20 percent, Mr. Lee says rates could jump as much as 40 percent in 2021."
I don't get the impression that paying medical staff for working even registers in this equation.
Universal healthcare wouldn't force doctors to work overtime for free.
In most professions, an increase in demand would cause wages to increase, which would cause more people to flock to the profession.
Medicine has intentionally put barriers up to prevent more people from entering the field. But then, when the shortages are pointed out, they throw up their hands.
You can't tell me that everyone needs to go $100K's in debt and devote 10 years of medical school/residency to be able to practice family medicine. But the people who are benefitting from this system (the doctors who already went through the training and loans) aren't willing to change it.
quite simply, there is no economy without consumer demand for services. and consumers who pay higher rents to their health insurance company have less money to spend. the money doesn't ever trickle back down into the economy once it is lost inside of the insurance system.
nevermind that millions of people have lost their employer-provided health insurance after being laid off. for them, these discussions of health insurance premiums rising are a bit academic; there is no chance of care being accessible or affordable, even if the monthly toll of maintaining expensive insurance is rising astronomically.
it's clear the the US healthcare system cannot continue in its current form. it is my hope that people will no longer entertain delusions of perseverating the present system. it's decidedly non-serious to consider that the ACA might be reformed further to keep the current system.
the only true debates remaining are about how much of the healthcare system should be under the public's control, which we can boil down to two camps: above 70% public ownership, or above 40% but less than 70%. the former camp includes ideas like single payer and medicare for all, whereas the latter camp includes hybrid systems which are closer to switerland's or germany's systems.
A free market requires price discrimination to establish prices. By definition some people must be priced out of the market. There is no free market in healthcare that will deliver anything close to the correct care for the people who need it, and as mentioned delaying the purchase of care or substituting the wrong care is often the worst of both worlds.
Health insurance is uniquely terrible: denying care is the quickest way to increase profits, and unlike fire insurance healthcare is needed by everyone at some point (most people never have their house burn down).
There are some things the free market is bad at. Natural monopolies are one. Healthcare is another.