I Disagree with Fred; Marketing is for Companies that Have Great Products | Hacker News Reader

I Disagree with Fred; Marketing is for Companies that Have Great Products

seomoz.org

51 pointsprocessing19 comments

Promotion is only a part of marketing.

The first thing you learn when studying marketing is the "four P's" of the marketing mix: product, price, place, promotion. Advertising is a subset of promotion. How applicable advertising is to your company's marketing strategy depends on your company.

I don't see much value in any broad-stroke commentary, but it's at least good to understand what marketing is and what it's composed of. Creating a product is as much about marketing as buying an ad.

I really can't understand how the people that are participating in this discussion (on AVC and elsewhere) are failing to see this - especially given some of their CV's...

Fred has made three posts about marketing this week, and has missed the point on all three, despite being corrected by Seth Godin on the first day.

Am I alone in thinking that this is really scary?

A modern perspective is that marketing should be "baked in" when a product is being created. Marketing is not "advertising" or "public relations" or "sales", but it's the management of the relationship with the consumer.

Look at Apple. Jobs gives great talks, Apple runs great ads, and Apple runs great stores. However, every product Apple is made is built to sell itself. Put that together with good advertising and sales and you kick butt.

"Marketing is like sex, only loosers have to pay for it." - unknown (at least to me)

"I don't pay them for sex. I pay them to leave." - Charlie Sheen

I used to think there was a lot of truth in "a good product will sell itself". However, I've come to realize this very much depends on the specific industry you're in.

Take online dating for example. Why do (most of) these guys spend insane amounts of money on marketing? I think it is because word-of-mouth for a good datingsite is held back by the social stigma that still surrounds online dating.

So you have a product, and people would rather not tell others they're using it. How would you raise awareness about it without resorting to traditional marketing?

There are a lot of counterexamples on "a good product will sell iself". Mainly in markets with a lot of suppliers, for example, think how long can it take to penetrate the market of CMS or CRM, even with an excelent product? or imagine a new NoSQL DB in the middle of the NoSQL hype.

The trouble with CMS and CRM products is that they aren't ever good.

I think that Fred's assertion can be true for startups. In many industries, marketing still matters. Porsche and Mercedes are heavily investing in marketing even in established markets. Few people will tell they have lousy products. Marketing probably has it's value, and (partly!) helps build an identity to a brand - which is always good, especially when the company is over the size where ever employee is knowing all other employees.

Google was the biggest search engine long before it ever advertised itself. Amazon was the biggest online retailer long before it ever advertised itself. Both of them still only do so very sparingly.

> Amazon was the biggest online retailer long before it ever advertised itself

Was it? I really can't remember how I first heard of Amazon, but I do remember some TV ads fairly early in its existence.

Amazon actually advertised fairly aggressively in the New York Times (among other places, I imagine) in the mid-90s, which was critical to their becoming the dominant online bookseller.

Coke is the biggest soft drink. Apple is the biggest consumer electronics company. Both advertise like it's the freaking antidote. No need to paint every company with the same brush. Different tasks, different tools.

The "we don't do marketing" thing is both unnecessarily extremist and usually a lie. See Square for a very recent example.

I think Apple has to spend lots on marketing because its main competitors (Microsoft and every PC maker on PCs and every other phone maker - Nokia excepted because of its recent suicide - in the smartphone space), taken together, outspend them by a huge margin (quite possible by orders of magnitude)

So, marketing is also something you need when your competitors spend more on that than in product development. Because if they spent in developing better products, you'd have to relocate your marketing resources into building some real value.

Also, Apple is expanding its business with its two app stores and pay for content revenue streams, so, we should expect large marketing expenditures to increase market awareness.

Oh. And before I forget, deciding whether you'll make a great product or a crappy-but-adequate one (or even one so crappy people are embarrassed to admit they bought it) is also part - and an important one - of your marketing strategy.

Marketing is not Advertising. Google has a hell of a marketing team. The whole Customer Development movement is in essence only about marketing. Knowing your customer, developing the right product, choosing the right price and communicating this to the customer.

It all boils down to what people understand by Marketing.

For me it's advertising purelly on the subjective level, without any concrete fact. probably Fred, whoever he is, think that way too.

For someone that works with marketing, it may means branding, or something else... I don't even know enough marketing terms to throw random examples. Point is You are just discussing the sex of the angels.

...well, it may be good marketing for your blog

marketing is understanding and communicating with your market - customers and potential customers.

advertising is one method of communication used in marketing. there are many others.

well that's what I have been told by my friends who work as marketers.

Right, marketing is doing research to understand the needs and wants of consumers. Marketers then deploy advertising channels to supply the demands of the consumers.

my point is what people not trained in market takes the term for.

They will not read your article or those comments, otherwise they cease to exist :)

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