Hacker News Reader

They also limit the number of people in aisles, sanitize carts, and are generally trying to do things right.

Not in the bay area(San Jose, Coleman Ave). I was there a few days ago. Not as busy as a pre-covid Costco of course, but the aisles were still busy and only a couple of the shoppers seemed to have any awareness of personal space. When I went to Lucky market today, they at least had blue tape near the checkout to indicate proper spacing(although the guy behind me was oblivious). Costco needs to step it up.

At this point, given how poorly I've seen people respect social distancing, I'm beginning to question its cost to benefit ratio. We are not as disciplined as many other countries.

I’m trying to understand the alternative - let contagion continue unchecked and overwhelm medical services?

The alternative is letting 7% of the population die, like Italy's peak.

But, hey, more dollars, right?

7% of Italy did not die.

If everyone in Italy gets Coronavirus, what do you expect the death rate to be?

And remember, 7% of confirmed cases there have already died, and that’s over 1 in 3 of all deaths reported so far.

According to the WaPo, it's likely that far more people are infected in Italy than we know about, and therefore the true mortality rate is much lower. Apparently the government is only testing people with "severe symptoms":

> The actual Italian death rate, they say, is probably far lower than what the government numbers suggest. The unofficial estimates assume the actual number of people infected with the virus — people who have not yet been tested — is massive. In other words, several hundred thousand people in Italy may be carrying the virus.

> “It’s a huge iceberg,” said Fabrizio Pregliasco, a virologist at the University of Milan. “We are only looking at those who are sick.”

> Though Italian leaders touted widespread testing at the beginning of the outbreak, the government has applied tight guidelines for who can be given swabs. Health officials have been testing those who have severe symptoms and are in need of obvious medical care.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/why-is-coronavir...

I’m definitely hoping it’s a statistical artifact. It would be very interesting if some country or ethnic group was genetically resistant to the virus, but that sort of invites the opposite to be true too, which I wouldn’t wish on anyone.

Still, if it’s 3% like everywhere else, that’s horrible enough that the point of the person who said 7% still stands, IMO.

The alternative is a mandatory quarantine. No leaving your house, the national guard will drop off government meal packs and government toilet paper, and we'll figure out the economy later.

A society that has the willingness to abide by voluntary distancing measures wouldn't need it, but the US may not be such a society.

The alternative is recognizing social distancing isn't working. If browbeating people into it doesn't work, then we, as a free society, are stuck. People are, apparently, not responsible enough, as a whole, to follow best-practices. Those best-practices only seem to work if people are nearly fully complying with them. Half-measures are, seemingly, useless, and impose a significant cost. Maybe establishing a government delivery service and tax credits for vulnerable people to go into long-term quarantine is better? I don't know. Initially I was strongly in favor of social distancing, but it was based on an incorrect assumption of how socially conscious my fellow Americans are.

Americans are free spirits, unlike people from more structured or rigidly governed countries. They're not used to giving up their personal freedom when someone tells them its for the good of all.

So unlike the Chinese, who shutter themselves obediently and trustingly at the whim of their government.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought I remember videos of Chinese people, very unhappily, being forced to stay in their homes by armed guards, as opposed to them obediently trusting their government.

Maybe I'm misremembering?

That gunpoint trust has to be earned.

Don't forget when members of the local government in China were welding doors shut on apartment buildings.

People could still get out if they really needed to, but they had to go through the main entrance where they were screening people for symptoms.

I was at that Costco earlier this week. They were cleaning carts and had a line along the carts to throttle entry. I was there pretty early though, so it was not very busy.

I should go earlier. I went around 7pm IIRC. My biggest problem was the people inside. I kept trying to stay out of people's way but it was impossible. People kept walking at me without giving me a chance to move. Other people were travelling down the middle of the aisle, effectively blocking anyone from going by. I think Costco needs to make aisles one-way for now, and tape off sections to give people a hint at the recommended spacing.

I've been at home for four weeks (as of last Sunday) due to wonky immune system. I made my first trip (not counting walks with dog) to grocery store yesterday and while I was careful about spacing while shopping, when I got to the register I went on autopilot and I was an oblivious guy. I only realized it when I got forward to use my my payment card. I wish someone had said something.

I guess it depends on the Costco. Since before this thing was declared a pandemic my Costco was already handing out wipes at the entrance for people to wipe down their carts with and had a table with hand sanitizer for us to use. The first few days I saw them religiously wiping down the tables at the food court (someone was there full time), and then by the next week they had shut down the food court completely. Today I went there and they still give you hand wipes, but in addition to that they have spaced out their checkout lanes and added plastic see-through barriers between the cashier and customers (like what you’d see at a gas station in a high-crime area). I have pictures of everything I’ve reported here.

Yes! By flooding the market to create an over abundance of TP, you reduce our innate anxieties to panic buy.

These actions can do a lot to alleviate panic not only at Costco, but other retailers too.

They limit the amount of TP you can purchase to 1 case per cart..

Well, they do now...

I especially liked the CNN headline last week: "People are panic-buying TP and stores are running out."

Gee, I wonder what effect that will have?

Getting more clicks, which is what profit seeking corporations optimize for, regardless of the externalities.

Can't waste a good crisis. Just like those senators today.

Flooding the market also messes up the profiteers, who are now trying to return TP that they can’t sell for $10 a roll.

If you're concerned about an extra dozen eggs you shouldn't be shopping wholesale.

Eggs don't go bad or spoil after a certain date. They dry up over time, but not in a few weeks.

I can't imagine anyone being in a situation where they need 4 dozen eggs for a few weeks, but none after that.

Are you talking about American membrane stripped eggs? Our eggs do not last as long as European style membrane eggs.

Our Costco (Atlanta) this past weekend had the entire back aisle filled with bottled water. Last weekend it was Kirkland Paper Towels.

HEB (Texas) is doing a lot of these things too, it's great

I would have never thought it was possible to like HEB more. I think I was at a 10, and now I'm at an 11.

They seem to be working lock-step with public health officials. Went there today and they had a LOT of people on hand to manage the entry and checkout lines, and to enforce social distancing.

Oh my god, I miss HEB (moved away from Texas in 2015).

We are a couple of weeks from having to buy TP, but the fact that it is missing from our local grocery stores (I live in Bellevue) has been making me paranoid. I should try the early morning thing and see if I can get something before its too late.

There's no "too late" (coming from someone who's in Madrid, Spain, which in terms of the pandemic might as well be the future).

The reality is that one or two weeks from now at most most idiots will have toilet paper for months and you'll be able to buy normally again.

Goods considered non essential, however, might be scarce since those shops will close as the workers are told to stay home. For example, I'm doing a lot of studying and I'm out of sheets of paper. Office supplies stores are closed, and buying that on Amazon feels like overkill and a little socially irresponsible, so I have to make do without them.

Check your house for random silly stuff you might miss if you're stuck at home.

When I go to the supermarkets the missing things are snack foods, beer, ice cream, etc. People have a lot of time to kill and those items arent replenished as much since they're considered non essential.

One of the nice things around here is stores like Walmart that sell groceries (so they are considered essential) also sells everything else (such as office paper).

Out of curiosity, I just checked and amusingly, depending on your local store, you can get it through their grocery pick-up service too. Probably also delivery, but I don't live in an area where they do that.

I’ve heard that in Italy they are closing departments of stores that aren’t selling life sustaining items, even if other parts of the store are.

That's what they've done in Bavaria. They apparently missed some shelves at the discounter I was at yesterday, and the cashier reluctantly told me that he couldn't sell me that pack of contact lenses I'd picked up in the health and beauty aisle (contact lenses are usually available on the shelf in Germany). He thought I might be able to get them at a pharmacist.

keep in mind that a store is just a frontend for several supply chains. The workers making the product might stop, the transporters might as well, and even the workers that refill the shelves might stop refilling non essential goods.

My only pair of shoes are falling apart. Thanks for the reminder to get "non-essentials".

Target and Walmart sell shoes if you are in the states.

Our crockpot cord broke, just a normal power cord that a standard computer monitor would use. However, amazon is quoting April 21st for a basics replacement while bestbuy said they probably would have it for pickup tomorrow but then delayed...so no crockpot food until I can get a dumb cord that comes with every computer monitor.

FYI https://www.digikey.com/products/en/cable-assemblies/power-l...

They have them at the store.

According to an online check, not target or Walmart, but they just might not be listed in their online inventory.

What's this obsession with TP? Worst case can you not just take a shower or buy a bidet?

I've heard it's because it's the most visible item, as opposed to a pack of beans, for example.

You can also ration your intake of food when it starts to become more scarce. People do this every day due to income constraints during non-Coronavirus times.

It's a little harder to ration your bowel movements. It can be done, but it's a lot less beneficial than forced fasting.

on the bright side, forced fasting has the effect of rationing your bowel movements, so win-win :)

One does not just "buy a bidet" to solve that problem...

Between plumbing and installation alone it's a very expensive solution to what should (under normal circumstances) be a simple purchase.

I imagine he's referring to the type you can buy on Amazon and attach to your toilet seat.

You could use a portable bidet or a peri bottle. I'm very sure you could DIY a peri bottle out of some household items, to be honest, and it shouldn't be hard or expensive.

Just use a towel or water, or whatever. This American obsession with toilet paper is very strange. I lived in Africa for two years and guess what they do there? They dip their hands in some water and wipe their butt with their hands. I wouldn't necessarily recommend this, but like, people need to get a grip and realize how many "essentials" aren't really essential at all.

"plumbing"? "installation"?

It's connecting two screw fittings, and then installing toilet seat (two bolts + nuts). If it's a particularly fancy model you may have to plug it in.

This is about as complicated as replacing a furnace air filter, and takes about as long. If you get someone to do it for you, you're paying for them to drive to your house, not the actual time installing it (which is trivial).

Until you posted this, I thought they required a hot water supply line, and power for other features.

A cold water only bidet would save on bathroom tissue and coffee...

If it needs hot water you can always split off of the sink that is undoubtedly next to it.

But most bidets that do warm water do not use a hot supply, because it takes too long to heat up. Most use a tank or tankless in the seat, and just need a normal 120v plug.

Last I heard, bidets were OOS as well...

It’s just panic. The best I can think is there was a TP panic during the Nixon years.

This viral video of women fighting over it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1nEnOmC6IQ

Funny thing: our apartment maintenance crews are working overtime unclogging toilets because people have run out of TP and didn’t realize you shouldn’t flush paper towels and baby wipes down the toilet. Bidets aren’t a thing here, I have no idea how I would even install it, it’s not like there is an extra waterline coming out of the toilet.

The bidets are for a normal home toilet that has a waterline coming out of the wall below the tank and a flex connection/pipe that goes up to the tank for fill.

You shutoff your water, disconnect the toilet fill line, add the bidet connection in-between with a T connection, and hook your toilet back up. They share the same supply line.

And it's very cold water depending on your geographic region and time of the year. Not sure I'd want to try it in Alberta during the winter.

If you have water coming to tank you have the capabilities to split it already fir either portable bidet or hand bidet aka small shower head.

Anecdata from Australia here - my main supermarket has only once had toilet paper in the last two weeks, and the one time I saw it there were security guards to ensure the elderly were able to get them as priority. It's meant to be coming back online according to TV, but I've not actually seen it at my local supermarkets.

However: a smaller independent market has almost always had some toilet paper, and according to our newspapers that's because their chain introduced a rule of checking ID at purchase to confirm you live in the same suburb, if they didn't already recognise you as a regular customer. I assume you've tried all options, but wanted to mention that if you've not considered smaller local indie retailers. Good luck!

The USA doesn’t really have indies in a lot of locations...maybe the Chinese grocery stores but I know I’m not getting TP there. Here it is just Safeway, QFC, Walmart, and Target, each is stocking TP in the morning before it is completely sold out after an hour.

Nearly all grocery stores (at least in Seattle) have a seniors-only hour right now, usually first thing in the morning. QFC, Fred Meyer, Safeway, Albertson's, Whole Foods, PCC, Costco, Metropolitan Market, Uwajimaya.

My Jewel in Chicago does now as well, saw the sign this afternoon (pretty sure it wasn't there last week), from 7am to 9am.

The points outlined above could be easily fulfilled if Costco had online shopping, don’t you think?

They do, but delivery is priced-in, and it becomes a time versus money trade off.

Costco: the only adults in the room