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Comment by paulddraper | Hacker News Reader

> Almost everybody wear mask when they are sick to avoid contaminating others.

The U.S. response is absurd.

I went grocery shopping the other day, and despite clear evidence of panic (empty shelves, hurried shoppers, long lines), but not a single person wore a mask.

Somehow, everyone is too scared to go to work, but not scared enough to wear a mask.

We're on course for the worst depression in history because we don't like masks?

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No, we're not wearing masks because we don't HAVE any.

I live in Brooklyn and I'd love to wear a mask. I'd love to have been wearing a mask every day for the past two weeks.

But where exactly do you suggest I find one since they're sold out literally everywhere, and we're also getting advice not to wear them so they can be saved for healthcare professionals!

You ought to reexamine your assumptions. We love masks but don't have any.

Sheesh.

Wrap a t-shirt around your face and use a clothespin to secure it. It's not perfect but from the best of my reading it's far better than nothing.

I was referring to either storebought masks or homemade ones.

Literally some paper towel, wire, and rubber bands [1].

If you're willing to break out a needle and thread you can make a durable cloth one. [2] [3]

> we're also getting advice not to wear them so they can be saved for healthcare professionals!

AFAIK, surgical-quality sterilizing masks are separate from what you'd probably find in the store; you're not pulling from the same stock.

(Though I seem to recall some charity effort of people sewing masks for doctors, so IDK what the actual U.S. healthcare regulations are.)

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNjpH5lBZ8w (University of Hong Kong-Shenzhen Hospital)

[2] https://nypost.com/2020/03/20/doctors-are-now-running-out-of...

[3] https://www.deaconess.com/How-to-make-a-Face-Mask

EDIT: "Sheesh"

> I'd love to have been wearing a mask every day for the past two weeks

Well, that’s the reason they are sold out, and heath professionals are desperately asking for donations.

You don’t need a mask unless you are sick. For protection you need a mask and glasses, but keeping your hands clean and away from your face does 95% of the job.

> You don’t need a mask unless you are sick. For protection you need a mask and glasses, but keeping your hands clean and away from your face does 95% of the job.

Except you do, because carriers without symptoms are contagious and the main drivers of this pandemic.

And no, coronavirus doesn't have wings, they are carried by water droplets, and any sort of barrier that can stop water droplets is better than no barrier at all.

If you’re truly asymptomatic then you wouldn’t be coughing.

There are lots of other things that can cause coughs, especially now that spring allergies are starting to kick in.

1. coronavirus isn't the only thing that cause coughing 2. coughing isn't the only way people spread out water droplets 3. you also don't want water droplets from other people landing directly on your face 4. nor you want to accidentally touch your face after touching potentially contaminated surfaces 5. people like you are being a hazard to their communities with this kind of behavior

Wear a scarf. The OP didn't say criticize people for not wearing mask-alternatives in a time of a shortage, they critized people for not wearing anything. DIY masks may not be as effective, but they still help (some top HN post claimed 70%-80%). This isn't a situation where if you can't do something perfectly you might as well not try. This is a situation that calls for doing anything within reasonable measures (don't raid hospitals for masks etc).

Paper masks are in shortage in Vietnam but that doesn't stop people from wearing big respirator kits or cloth masks that they rotate out.

Scarves are about the least effective makeshift masks, catching less than 50% of virus sized particles. A tea towel/dish cloth catches over 70% and a vacuum cleaner bag is over 80%, almost as good as a surgical mask.

> Professional and Home-Made Face Masks Reduce Exposure to Respiratory Infections among the General Population

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2440799/

> ... catching less than 50% of virus sized particles.

This is true but irrelevant.

You want to catch larger globs that carry virus-sized particles, and almost any material will help to some extent with this.

Not discouraging it, just pointing out that there are much better alternative materials.

But breathing through a vacuum cleaner bag is too hard.

Still, it might work if you did a radical pleat. I'll try it.

As I recall, two layers of cotton t-shirt is the best option.

That would be awesome but I think you meant a "radial" pleat.

Huh. I meant radical in the sense of large surface area. And I was thinking ~cylindrical.

But radial is a great idea. And as soon as I started playing with paper, the ancient muscle memory of folding filter paper came back to me.

Edit: OK, I used filter paper from a shop vac, 20 cm wide by 30 cm high, with six faces triangular faces on the top and bottom, and eight faces on the sides. The ends of the faces on each side are sewed together, with an elastic strap connecting them. So the base is a diamond, ~18 cm wide and ~12 high. There's cloth edging on the top and bottom, and a cloth-wrapped 1 cm x 5 cm strip of aluminum edging to seal the top of the nose.

Well technically we didn’t like masks before... if we like them we like them now that the situation is bad.

Try making your own mask: https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/best-materials-make-diy-...

Some folks have only recently been made aware of the actual usefulness of masks. Before a couple of days ago, I saw and believed the stuff being put out by the CDC. Next time I am shopping I will have a make-shift mask on.

I don't think anybody has masks to wear even if they'd like to. I certainly don't. The US surgeon general was also adamantly advising people not to buy masks over the past month. At this point, any and all masks are being redirected to hospitals, as there is a critical shortage. Paint shops in my local area have donated their entire supply to the local hospital -- the health department is encouraging people to hand sew masks to donate. If we had a surplus for every family, I'm sure things would look different.

I actually have two old FFP1 R rated masks in my closet from the past two pollen seasons. Since I only used them during the pollen season, they're probably still okay. But I haven't been wearing them recently, since the effectiveness of them hasn't really been clear. There's really also the stigma of being a leper, although that didn't really stop me during the pollen season.

Unfortunately there simply aren't enough masks produced in western countries. If governments directed factories to produce face masks, like they are currently doing for ventilators, then we could have enough. And I believe most people would actually wear them if they were widely available and governments directed it.

It seems like that would cost less, and might also be more effective than shutting down half the economy?

If it were more effective, don't you think at least one country on earth would have thought of that?

Masks may be able to help a little, but odds are good that if you're in a bus with an infected person coughing or sneezing, you'll be infected with or without a (regular surgical-style) mask. Those masks are almost entirely designed to keep stuff in, not to keep them out of your nose/mouth/eyes.

The slightly reduced incidence of infection from direct contact would not at all affect the greatly increased incidence from much more frequent direct contact. Which is why no country is relying on it.

Many countries did think of that. In most of East Asia, including Japan, many factories have been diverted to mask production and delivering masks to the general public has been a key government priority.

The masks is more for the coughing/infected person to wear, although they help reduce transmission on either side.

Think of widespread use of masks as a kind of surrogate herd immunity. Not as a surrogate vaccine. It's only effective in a statistical sense. But it is effective.

I feel the crux of Japanese resilience (vis a vis Western) has been their tendency to consider and act in the group's interest, rather than in own interest.

However, it's far from over and time will tell. Yesterday I saw many people doing hanami, cautiously.

> “Those masks are almost entirely designed to keep stuff in”

“Keeping stuff in” is exactly the point. Covid-19 causes mild symptoms for most, so many people walk around infecting others without even realising it. Where there is widespread use of masks, transmission is greatly slowed/reduced.

The point of wearing the mask is not only to protect yourself, but even more so to protect others in case you are infected.

> went grocery shopping the other day, and despite clear evidence of panic (empty shelves, hurried shoppers, long lines), but not a single person wore a mask.

That means nobody knew they were sick and went shopping anyway. Which is good.

Many people in the US think masks are like gas masks, used to prevent dangerous things from getting in your body. Masks are used to prevent people from spreading a disease, and you should assume anyone wearing one is sick.

It also means nobody who was sick but didn't know was wearing a mask that would have helped limit others' exposure. Which is kind of relevant here, where you are infectious to others for days before you feel sick.

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