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Comment by l_davis | Hacker News Reader

In Japan, people wear masks so they don't spread their germs. In the US, people want to wear masks to avoid other's germs. Totally different mindset. And in the US we are being discouraged from wearing masks because they don't block the virus from going in even though they could be keeping asymptomatic people from spreading.

Well I feel duly embarrassed for not thinking that way earlier. Just ordered some cotton masks.

I'm sure there are other reasons the spread is different in Japan but this is something we can do. Not the disposable ones though.

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> In Japan, people wear masks so they don't spread their germs. In the US, people want to wear masks to avoid other's germs. Totally different mindset.

Absolute orientalist BS.

I work in a Japanese workplace. Lots of people here don't normally wear masks. When they do wear masks, they pull them down to cough or sneeze so that they don't walk around with a wet and dirty mask. The idea that I could be dirty and infecting people doesn't cross the minds of most people, just like how in many places around the world people are taking international trips and dodging quarantine.

Recently, almost everybody is wearing a mask. People have jokingly asked if the new mask wearers are infected, to which they quickly reply along the lines of, "No way. I just don't want to get infected by you guys."

Japan isn't some society of honor and sacrificing oneself for the good of the country or whatever like movies based on ancient stereotypes make it seem. Most people are looking out for themselves just like anyone else. The way it's done is just sometimes different.

>> Absolute orientalist BS.

I politely disagree with your observations, though I acknowledge that I may not be right, I have observed and discussed this behaviour dozens of times with Japanese people in Japan for over twenty years and most find your parent's observation to be correct.

Please don't call people a racist for espousing reasonable views that you don't happen to believe.

I think I understand the point behind that post. Many Japanese believe that they are special and superior and love to sell that to non Japanese. It can be really annoying, and it isn't true that as a nationality they are somehow inherently superior.

If you can, get over your feelings.

I do not believe Japanese are superior. Nor do I believe that most Japanese people think that way. On the contrary. YMMV though.

This thread isn't about that anyway. We are just trying to understand what, if anything, has worked so far in one country and what is not working elsewhere.

I said many, not most.

I watch NHK World regularly. One of their programs, Japangle, ends every episode with the catchphrase "It means that Japanese people are so special." A datapoint to show why I made my statement.

And, speaking of what works in one country as opposed to others, I started watching Japanese news instead of American news years ago because of the calm delivery. I do read news from many other sources, but I don't listen to other TV news programs. My two cents on that is that American news goes for getting people emotional, and hearing it affects the ability to think rationally. Taking this pandemic seriously but not getting worked up enough that one loses the ability to be rational is something that would benefit us all.

Certainly Japanese people look out for their own self interest. And there are non altruistic reasons for wearing masks - including, if you are female, skipping makeup. I don't buy into the stereotypes that you mention, but I do believe that Japanese manners, in general, make it easier for people to coexist in crowded places. That includes wearing masks. And maybe I'm completely wrong about that. I still think that if more asymptomatic people in the US wore masks in public (and I don't think complete distancing is sustainable long term), the spread of this could be slowed. So I do intend to wear the masks I purchased when they arrive. I do hope I keep up with that resolve. On my last trip to Japan I had a cold and wore masks to try to be polite and avoid spreading my germs. They really aren't that comfortable.

I do wish US politicians would tell people to go back to work, but wear operation masks.

Do you think people would actually wear them, and wear them correctly enough that it would be effective?

I don't think the US can be culturally expected to handle the situation the same way east Asia does.

Where would we find operation masks? s far as I can tell they’re still sold out literally everywhere.

I ordered cotton masks from Etsy. They are supposed to arrive by the end of the month. Select vendors in the US for speed. Amazon has lots of cotton masks, but they all seem to be shipped from China, which means they will take awhile to arrive. (Am assuming US buyers. Looks like Etsy vendors are all over though so you can probably find a vendor locally in many countries.)

There are plenty of patterns for cotton masks online and I think ways to use a 3D printer to make one. I would much rather just buy one, myself.

3D printing cotton masks? Are there 3D printers that can work with plant fibers?

I wasn't clear; I meant some kind of reusable 3D mask, not cotton.

I know nothing about 3D printing, so if you do you might want to search and see if what you find looks workable. I got many results that indicate it is possible.

> I ordered cotton masks from Etsy.

“Cotton masks” from Etsy are almost certainly not the same thing as the medical/operation/surgical masks being suggested, which typically have a melt-blown polymer filter layer between non-woven fabric exterior layers.

It's true that even medical providers are turning to these type of masks as emergency supplies (and calling on hobbyists to make them for medical use!) because actual proper surgical masks are in short supply, but that doesn't mean that they are as effective and, moreover, it means that mass public use would lead to supply shortage into what has become the necessary fallback for actual medical use.

They aren't the same thing as medical masks. I'm well aware of that. But if people start making their own or get them from providers that aren't supplying medical needs anyway, it could very well reduce spread without taking masks from medical providers.

Why is Japan an outlier? One thing they do differently from most of the rest of the world is wear masks. Not perfectly but certainly more than in the US. And many Japanese are making their own now as they can't find professionally made ones either.

Yes it's a desparate measure but this is becoming more serious by the day.

I did have the opportunity to ask a Japanese person his opinion on why the rate of increase is lower than in the US. One reason he gave is wearing masks. Another one is the practice of taking shoes off when entering one's home (you bring in fewer pathogens that way). He did preface his answer with the statement that he is not a medical professional and that he was stating that it was his opinion only. But maybe something to consider.

Editing to see that the question I answered might suggest that I was saying those types of cotton masks are medical grade. I didn't mean to suggest that and agree that it's not responsible for someone to use a medical grade mask now without a medical need. My apologies for any misunderstanding I created.

I ordered something from Japan last week. I was worried about delays due to travel restrictions and they had a warning about them on the website.

But it arrived in the US two days. It wasn't overnight shipping or anything fancy or expensive either. I was expecting 5+ days.

I order lots of stuff from Japan, from Amazon US from Japan-based sellers. It's taken anywhere from a few days to two months (my last purchase). So I didn't want to risk it. Didn't find Japanese sellers of masks anyway.

There are a lot of misconceptions about masks. They are not effective for protection if not paired with eye protection. Plus viruses and bacteria actually cling to it, and lay people not used to wearing one will end up touching it way too often (try it, you’ll immediately realize how hard it is to not touch it).

As the GP mentioned, the main reason for wearing masks is to avoid spreading your disease to others. Glasses are not necessary for this.

Based on a hunch from the example of 1 country with an unusually low spread? Why would anyone assume that risk?

> I do wish US politicians would tell people to go back to work, but wear operation masks.

Surgical masks, as well as N95 respirators, are already in short supply for medical use. Encourage further non-medical use would exacerbate the supply shortage and hasten the rapidly-approaching catastrophic collapse of the healthcare system.

The current recommendation (and, increasingly frequently, mandatory order) that non-essential work that cannot be done remotely should be suspended is correct.

A vacuum cleaner bag is over 80% effective at catching virus size particles, a tea towel/dish cloth 70%, a surgical mask 90%. There’s no tea towel shortage. Western governments should be encouraging use of makeshift masks.

> Professional and Home-Made Face Masks Reduce Exposure to Respiratory Infections among the General Population

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2440799/

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