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Comment by Razengan | Hacker News Reader

The pixel perfect terrain deformation of Lemmings and Worms will always be impressive, and something that 3D can’t do as well as 2D (yet?)

I wonder why there haven’t been any modern sequels or mobile ports of Lemmings..

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There was this crazy game ‘Vangers’ that, apart from the most-otherworldly feel I've ever encountered, had terrain in voxel graphics and permanently destructible — and I don't mean shitty Minecraft voxels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9R7QJ5Sh1o

That was '98. Still wondering why I haven't seen anything like that anymore. I vaguely recall one dude working on a super-detailed engine, down to individual blades of grass and such, but not sure how's the damage model there (that's possibly related to this, but probably not: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00gAbgBu8R4). There's also the ‘Teardown’ game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc_QC25RM44, and a search for ‘voxel graphics’ on YouTube suggests a few others in this vein. Still not quite the same.

As for mobile Lemmings, the Play store tried to sell them to me just yesterday.

Interesting. Judging from the video, I can't tell, but does it use a height map, or true voxels? I don't see any instances of hollow spaces or overhangs, which could be done with voxels but not with a height map. A height map would give good performance and destructibility, without using a huge amount of memory. The top-down view would let you hide that from the players, such as for bridges.

There are under-surface nooks and overpasses, also destructible (in fact, most of the nooks are accessed in just that way).

Notably, the terrain is optionally permanently destructible, but you could switch it to temporary if the machine didn't have too much ram (by the standards of '98). In practice, having a sizeable fraction of the world(s) destroyed, as a side effect of normal business, did hamper the vibe, so having the damage be temporary was just saner.

> had terrain in voxel graphics and permanently destructible

Isn't that a feature of several 'modern' games, like Space Engineers, Stationeers, Astroneer and maybe more?

> I wonder why there haven’t been any modern sequels or mobile ports of Lemmings...

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemmings_(video_game)#Legacy

In 2010, it was announced that Lemmings would be ported to the iOS operating system by developer Mobile 1UP. On 29 June 2010, Mobile 1UP reported that Sony Computer Entertainment Europe had presented them with a cease-and-desist letter, forcing them to halt development of the port. In April 2011, Mobile 1UP has released a re-worked version of the work done in 2010 with a prehistoric setting (new artwork, sfx, music, levels) under the name Caveman, available for the iOS and webOS platforms. Brutal Deluxe, the developer who did the porting of the Apple IIgs version of Lemmings, has released the games' source code.

Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemmings_(video_game)#Ports_an...

I played a mobile lemmings game on Android just last year. It was completely uninspired and not actually a lemmings game loop.

Noita does interesting things with terrain deformation, and this is a good GDC talk about how it does so: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prXuyMCgbTc

Sony has owned Lemmings since the early 90s. They have actually released Lemmings games somewhat regularly for their consoles. Most recently, in 2018, they did a version for iOS and Android: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/lemmings-the-puzzle-adventure/...

Unfortunately it’s a typical free-to-play mobile game where you buy gold to keep playing.

Red Faction, which was mostly taking place in underground mines, had generic deformable/destructible terrain reminiscent of Lemmings terrain, but 3D. It was artificially limited in some ways, otherwise you'd just drill your way straight to the level end (similarly to some Lemmings levels with unpiercable material).

Drilling through was not just a gimmick but actually part of the game, e.g instead of finding a key à la Doom/Descent, you'd have to detonate a rocket, a mine, or a grenade at walls near locked doors to create holes big enough to go around them (took me a surprisingly long time the first time to figure I was supposed to do that, especially as the level is intentionally deceptive as you have door with buttons/keys before).

There were also actual boring machines to help you drill through big time. You could make bridges fall into a chasm by blasting both ends. In enemy-crowded open areas you'd have to create your own cover by carving holes in walls or in the ground.

Trivia: Red Faction was initially due to be Descent 4 (as a prequel to Descent), but turned into a on-foot FPS in a different universe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Faction_(video_game)

Thanks for mentioning that, I think do this date it's one of the very view 3D games with destructible terrain. I remember in particular one testing level (maybe it was just in the demo), where you were put in a hall with some explosives to experiment with (probably to showcase the engine). When I was a kid I remember that I wanted to create a U-formed tunnel around the hall and was pretty impressed when this was indeed possible (and had respect for tunnel engineers as it's hard to get the direction right).

      #####################
     #                     #
    #   +---------------+   #
     #  |               |  #
      # |               | #
       #|               |#
        #               #
        +---------------+

    +|- ... original hall/room
    #   ... tunnel

I was really impressed at that time and frankly I still am. Good times.

EDIT: The level was called glasshouse. This video might be useful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8KeFgzqsPQ

Glass House is a sandbox level on the PC version, to fool around with the engine!

Rabbit Escape[1] is similar; I like the scribble aesthetic.

[1]: https://artificialworlds.net/rabbit-escape/

I have the same opinion as it relates to 2D RPGs, e.g., FF6. The level of detail that could be added into the most benign piece of background art added so much more weight into the entire scene.

Predating both: https://archive.org/details/GorillasQbasic

You might also enjoy Noita, a modern roguelike with per-pixel terrain destruction -- as well as liquids, gases and fire.

It is not in any way a roguelike.

It can be considered a roguelite,though personally I'd just say it is a platformer with permadeath.

There's a port of Lemmings 1 on the Windows store. A few things like the bomber explosions were changed, but it's otherwise the same game.

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