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Comment by badams2527 | Hacker News Reader

How many civil engineers are building bridges on the side? Why has it become the "norm" that CS students pay tons of money to attend universities that leave them ill-equipped to find a job in the real world?

One of the best parts of college is the ability to learn more about yourself, diversify parts of your life, and experience new things. It's hard to do that when your life is split between school work and personal work.

I worked my life away at side projects and a part-time programming job in college and looking back there's so much I would've done differently. CS programs across the country need a wakeup call.

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> Why has it become the "norm" that CS students pay tons of money to attend universities that leave them ill-equipped to find a job in the real world?

University industry, unions, and academia more broadly, set the tone that if you want to do anything "for real" you must go to school. Many companies, parents, and ordinary lay people are convinced.

My (somewhat limited, I am young) experience tells me that competence is a completely inadequate predictor of whether somebody went to school for computing or software, but self-importance is an excellent one.

A good CS education will give you a wider perspective, a stable foundation to build on. Then you need practice, lots of it, to become anything close to competent. But being able to orient yourself and having been exposed to several different kinds of problems and languages, and learned an algorithm or two, definitely helps.

One of my university teachers told us that to become a real programmer, you have to design and build at least one language of your own. I wouldn't choose the same words; but having done several, I sort of agree. You need practical experience before it makes any sense though.

> How many civil engineers are building bridges on the side? Why has it become the "norm" that CS students pay tons of money to attend universities that leave them ill-equipped to find a job in the real world?

The problem is rather the expectation of the employers: No civil engineer is expected to build huge bridges in his free time.

True, and also it's inflated role expectations: I doubt junior candidate civil engineers straight out of college are expected to have multiple finished bridge projects in some kind of portfolio. Entry level jobs are supposed to be entry level: You filter for education fundamentals, hire for aptitude and potential, and then they learn the industry tools and jargon on the job.

Software engineering is not civil engineering. Software is "soft", "plastic", you can build and change anywhere.

If one could build bridges that easy, I am sure people will do it.

Exactly. How many artists draw or paint on the side? How many musicians write music for themselves? How many writers write stories for fun?

Not many.

But lots of architects design things in their spare time.

Is software engineering closer to civil engineering or closer to architecture.

> CS programs across the country need a wakeup call. I assume you mean the United States. I'd say this is actually across the world.

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