TfL closes 40 tube stations, suspends Night Tube, fewer trains, buses next week | Hacker News Reader

TfL closes 40 tube stations, suspends Night Tube, fewer trains, buses next week

ianvisits.co.uk

50 pointsedward72 comments

Here's the official announcement, perhaps should switch link to this

https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2020/march/...

This seems like the right response. For Americans who are used to driving everywhere, it is hard to state just how critical the tube is for all people to get to work. Very few people in London have cars, so shutting down the tube entirely would prevent critical workers from getting to work. Looking at the stations to be closed, it seems like a reasonable list; buses will still offer a reduced timetable to connect affected areas.

Won't this just guarantee that every bus or tram is as full as possible?

That wouldn't be much of a change from what the tube is like normally...

We have reduced bus and tram schedules here in my city in Poland (they now go according to the weekend timetable) and still there's not much people in them.

Tube was already running 50% full from normal. Buses 40%. People are staying at home. Me and my family have already been holed up for a week.

Neither any of the comments nor the article explains what TfL stands for; it is "Transport For London", basically their public transport authority.

London is already a ghost town. I went in for the last time a few days ago to ensure some colleagues could work from home. Normally the City (financial district) is packed with people, no seats to be had, streets full. Monday felt like a Sunday afternoon. I think people are starting to get the message.

With fewer trains, wouldn't that lead to more overcrowding?

My thoughts exactly. My local Safeway has decided to close at 9pm instead of midnight due to the health issues, which means that now everyone that would have gone later is now crowding in right before closing.

In Copenhagen, the metro took the reverse action, running more trains, even outside rush hours (basically all their trains all the time). Well, that happened two weeks ago, and now no one is actually taking the metro, so maybe they have cut down since then.

I think bus companies and train companies in general took the same action, but they are also reporting an 80% drop in passengers.

Copenhagen can do this as the metro trains are automatic (no drivers, just some controllers with oversight in an office somewhere) and the stations are often not staffed.

London has to have train drivers, and most stations aren't as safe as a fairly new system.

Then have more drivers and pay them a bit extra. Train drivers are mostly isolated in their cabins and not exposed to the people much anyway.

They will eventually finish their shifts and alight at a platform; travelling as another passenger.

Average salary for a tube driver is £55k. Here's what TFL say; “The average base pay of a Tube driver is £55,011. The overwhelming majority earned total remuneration – including base pay, overtime, employer pension contributions and certain allowances – of £70,000 [$80k] or considerably less.” Always think that's interesting

That's a reasonable salary if you are expected to live (or commute daily) to London and provide something resembling a family home.

Everyone else in low and middle income bracket is just getting screwed.

As a software developer was getting paid less than a tube driver

Hence why I also mentioned buses and S-trains, which are not automated, and requires drivers. But they pulled in people, and then as the decline in passengers occurred, they starting reducing the number of vehicles in service.

While our hospitals have not been overloaded yet, the government has already been calling in any extra potential personnel to help with the upcoming strain. Like recently retired doctors, medical students, etc.

WOW. There is a sane country in Europe! Everyone else seems to either have swallowed their retard-pills, or they want to save costs and use this defective rationalization instead.

"Rush hour operation has been prolonged on all three metro lines to now run from 06 until 20.00." (normally 07-09 and 14-18)

Seat reservations are compulsory on longer-distance trains (to prevent overcrowding), although I doubt they're busy anyway.

That's probably the immediate consequence, but not necessarily the only one: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand#Reduced_deman...

The peak tube is usually crowded to the point of you can’t get on, this week there’s photos of spare seats as they leave zone 1.

This image is from six days ago, I’d usually expect to see ~25 people in this space https://imgur.com/lUC9hO4

The tube is incredibly empty at the moment. I imagine it's not much of a concern

I wonder if this can be a solution to the heating problems on the older lines. I haven't done the math but a few weeks of closure or reduced service can be an opportunity for some heat exchange.

It sounds like it took many decades for the surrounding soil to heat up, so without 100xing the rate of cooling from the soil relative to the existing rate of heating I'm skeptical, given that the heating resulted from a temperature differential of likely a few dozen degrees, you would need a substantially cooler environment to cool the soil. Maybe with a massive investment you could do it by cooling the tunnels to substantially sub zero temperatures.

More info for those like me who were unaware

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_cooling

Thanks that was an interesting read. If the heat sink begins to dissipate are any structural risks to the network?

Given that the trains are reported to be the largest sources of heat, the best solution in the long term will be new, more efficient trains.

New drivetrain technology is already far more efficient, producing less waste heat, than the decades-old stuff still being use on most London Underground lines.

In new trains, more powerful regenerative braking rather than friction braking will dramatically reduce heat produced from braking, for example. (It will mean less dirty air on the Underground, too!)

I can't find an online source to document this - but on a recent tour of Chislehurst Caves in SE London - the tour guide mentioned that during the second world war, when it was used as a bomb shelter for some 15,000 local residents, the heat built up inside to over 30°C very quickly. When the war ended he said, it took about 10 years for the temperature to return to it's now rather chilly 10°C.

Please don't fuel this bad reasoning - decreasing the number of trains or lowering their speed is a dangerous measure that will increase transmission!

It's the same brand of broken-mindedness that brought us the "only sick people should wear masks" and other wrong-think measures that increase transmission and make everything worse!

If it was at the same capacity sure, but its been a ghost town (compared to normal) the last few days, so I doubt it will have a huge effect in that sense. It will also discourage people from taking the tube unless they have to (tbf they probably already were at the is point).

>the same brand of broken-mindedness that brought us the "only sick people should wear masks"

So apparently qualified health professionals having to deal with masks shortage are "broken-minded", but a bunch of armchair MD Internet commenters are correct.

You make claims in italics, but you don't justify any of them.

They don't have the staff due to people being off. Many of the other odd-seeming emergency measures taken or planned for in the UK have the same root cause. Even the school closures are more about staffing than reducing the spread of the virus; apparently that's a useful measure in flu pandemics because kids lack the immunity that adults do, but since no-one is immune to this as far as we know it's kind of weak here.

Well, nnq. Turns out you may have been right and owed an apology by those who downvoted you:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/mar/23/criticism-ov...

Similar in the Netherlands with the train network, they've cut the train frequency way back and most intercity trains are no longer running, being replaced with sprinters (which stop at every station.)

As is annoyingly common with them, the English detail is rather useless:

https://www.ns.nl/en/travel-information/calamities/fewer-tra...

but the Dutch is fairly comprehensive:

https://www.ns.nl/reisinformatie/calamiteiten/vanaf-vrijdag-...

Even though this is the right response I feel this is a bit late.

It's the opposite of the right response!

How so?

It is.

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