We got all severely fucked last time. Boeing bought for $52 billion shares back and now they want $60?
I hope Donald Trump is going to push his Tough guy act now. If he says no to all the bailouts he is going to be remembered as the best president ever.
These industries have already priced in that they can do whatever the hell they want, completely fall apart and they will get bailed out.
They know that:
1. They are needed, or seen as needed by politicians
2. The appetite for true nationalization of industries is extremely low in the US, so they will get bailed out instead of taken over by govt.
They were playing a speculative game and bought high, now they have to sell low.
OOPS
Management should be punished excessively as a warning to others, though I do not expect them to be punished at all.
Somehow I suspect that if the earth swallowed every employee of Boeing and Airbus, and every plane ever produced by either, there would be more airplanes and more airplane manufacturers soon enough.
May even be better in the end, though let's say the USSR and NASA stopped space launch vechiles - how long would it take to make an alternative. Longer than we appreciate.
So, still Boeing.
he seems trustworthy.
Bailing these things out only protects executives and shareholders, I hope you’re not arguing that those have been doing a good thing for the world recently.
Not to mention that maybe letting them get so big was a mistake in the first place? Based on petty power games of "leaders" (in politics, finance and business) and not on technical necessities.
Determining how deep that goes is tough. Replacing the executive level is admitting the company must replace with a radically different culture. Those take time to cultivate, and the US incentives are aligned such that without great effort, standard American business culture is to evolve to what we see from Boeing. The tragedy isn't that Boeing is exceptional in its systemic broken culture, the tragedy is that this is par for the entire American business edifice without assiduous work by company leadership (many examples of that working away without recognition, but business journalism shares blame in lionizing on KPIs that don't measure for the brokenness); Boeing is simply different by scale of acute fatalities flowing straight from the business culture.
For now, give them a loan, as much as they need, interest free for 10 years. No more bonuses nor stock buybacks until the loan has been repaid.
At least that's the bankruptcy theory. Real world bankruptcy may well have a lot more friction.
Feel free to educate me on how the real world works here!
Maybe we ought to rethink the extent of our wants versus our needs.
'Why what we’ve been doing stopped working and why you don’t have to assume it: So, there was a chaotic system and an organizational structure on top of that system that could not react to disruption and the wheels ground to a halt. (...)'
Asked just one Topic away, 'Is the status quo scaling?' P-:
"Management" is a group of ordinary people who are doing their jobs - trying to maximize profits for their employers. I'm not going to sit here and say my job is any different. I'm writing code so my employer will make money, not anyone else.
What specifically are you going to punish management for?
> What specifically are you going to punish management for?
Maybe punish them for their myopic view on "maximizing profits"? What's worth more: $100 in profit in Q1, or $25 in profit for the next 8 quarters? It would better for everyone if we had a return to sustainability in the private sector.
No one has to be bailed out. They can take out loans, issue new shares, or file for bankruptcy. The government should not be bailing anyone out.
It wouldn't be that long for new companies to pop up if the only two players collapsed. People can just buy the existing facilities for making parts and assembly.
Conversely, Trump, if he knows nothing else, knows how to focus doggedly on what's going to excite his base. If he can sell his base on the idea of loan-sharking Boeing (which is a legitimate strategy), then he'll come out looking like a winner, despite the fact that he'll have done the exact same thing as Obama.
Remember, never let your accomplishments go unrecognized by those you serve. https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/02/13/the-iceberg-secret...
Taxpayers lost $10.2 billion. Are those the bailouts you're talking about.
There was a brief period where loans were paid back profitably but everyone crowing about profits was ignoring that the rest of the loans were booked against stock which was heavily underwater and later liquidated at substantial losses.
I don't know who The Balance is but these numbers seem consistent from other sources I just looked at.
Please correct me if I have this wrong (not being snarky) -- what I think I know is comprised of varied articles spread across years.
Not that making a direct profit was even the goal of the bailouts, but it sure is nice that we made money off of them on top of saving the economy.
https://money.usnews.com/investing/articles/2017-01-19/finan...
And there are no possible circumstances where he'll be remembered as the best president ever. He's fighting for 44th place.
A more generous reading of this strategy is that Trump will do what the people want. I fail to see how that's any worse than someone in Washington saying they know what's best, or tat we need to "tighten our belts".
>He's fighting for 44th place.
In a survey of Californians maybe. You're sorely mistaken if you don't think Trump is popular, and might be surprised (again) in November. Will the Democrats blame the Russians again?
In the old language of my ancestors, rotfl.
For his small part in this, it was mismanaged, certainly. But if you think that the reason Covid-19 is spreading is because "Trump let it happen", you have an interesting view of how the institutions work.