Hacker News Reader

Comment by threatofrain | Hacker News Reader

Perhaps US eat-out culture will die, and those who worked those jobs will just have to find some other means by which to negotiate value from the economy.

View on HN

Remarkable how quickly you were able to dehumanize the economic impact on millions of lives and yet simultaneously anthropomorphize the “economy”. A single sentence.

The restaurant industry is brittle and consolidating, and the the American middle class might not be strong enough to support it anymore. Recent events just magnify the weaknesses of the existing system.

We could talk about things like the expansion of government programs, or we could talk about your theory of how I'm stripping people's humanities away. You would also presume quite poorly if you thought I haven't worked in the food industry.

If you have something interesting to offer to the scenario of collapsing American restaurants, go ahead. Such as more discussion on dehumanization.

I'd recommend keeping your first two sentences (which are interesting), and deleting the rest of the comment (which just continues an inflammatory line).

The assertion that restaurants failing in the wake of the government mandating them to close in response to a once in a lifetime pandemic is evidence of them being unviable as an industry is utterly laughable.

Whats more remarkable is that no one has made a peep about RENTAL PAYMENT DEFERRALS or SUSPENSIONS to even COMMERCIAL LANDLORDS of APARTMENTS / SINGLE FAMILY HOMES yet somehow sit-down restaurants and their health are a top concern.

These priorities are lop-sided at best.

Restaurants are not a critical component of your basic sustenance. They never were, in the course of human history. Heavy dependence on them for ones immediate sustenance needs is a very recent development.

On the other hand, shelter is.

“No one” in the US perhaps?

Some other countries already have programs. NZ just introduced a program where everyone who’s job is locked-out will still get paid (so they can continue to pay bills). Other countries have different programs.

I don't understand how a program like that, paying just the workers, is going to help when the business they work for still goes out of business. It needs to be suspended payments for everybody: the renters, the landlords and homeowners paying their mortgages, the businesses paying their rent, and so on. You can't just target one group and forget the rest or everything collapses.

Probably because the buildings aren't going anywhere. Landlords will lose money, but they're less likely to lay off tons of people.

Restaurants employ ~10% of working Americans. A lot of people are going to lose jobs.

  Restaurants employ ~10% of working Americans. A lot of
  people are going to lose jobs.

No one disputes that. Although that 10% figure needs corroboration. As other comments have pointed out restaurants have switched to take-out and delivery and will need ample workers for those operations.

But meanwhile what happens to the other 90% Americans who are working who face uncertain futures - some even in underrepresented sectors or even non-union sectors? How do they make rent or their mortgage payments?

All I'm asking is why are restaurant workers deserving of such singular attention and their concerns need such elevation over the rest of the entire working classes of America including other blue & white collar workers?

It's a SINGLE INDUSTRY that represents 10% of our workforce; I think that's more than any other. Overwhelmingly they are non-unionized. Profit margins for restaurants are very slim (avg. around 5%). Take-out/delivery is not going to come close to replacing the lost business. Many restaurants will close - many already have.

This is not to say other industries (like hotels) won't also be badly hurt. But restaurants are probably the single largest highly effected sector.

Shelter is a human right. Landlords aren't.

>If you have something interesting to offer to the scenario of collapsing American restaurants, go ahead.

You didn't quite offer anything interesting, just stated the industry is collapsing and workers should get other jobs...that isn't interesting or helpful.

Curious how many people you employ and if your business is immune from the economic impact of this pandemic, maybe some of these workers would like you to hire them.

I simply responded to what you wrote, without assumption or prejudice.

This is a far more interesting statement: “The restaurant industry is brittle and consolidating, and the the American middle class might not be strong enough to support it anymore. Recent events just magnify the weaknesses of the existing system.“

If that is what you intended to communicate, then maybe that is what you should have written.

I would conjecture that it describes much of the US economy, not just the food service industry.

I don't see any evidence of anthropomorphizing the economy or dehumanizing the individual here in the comment you are replying to.

Maybe you need to reread what you commented on

Please don't respond to a bad comment with another bad comment. That only makes the thread even worse. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

Maybe, given the financial shock, no other means are readily available. Maybe, given the lack of means to negotiate value from the economy the lose the ability to buy food or pay for their shelter. Maybe in that case they either band with other people unable to negotiate this value, abandon respect for the law, and take that value by force. Maybe they do not do this, and are forced into situations that put them in greater contact with other people and makes the pandemic worse.

> find some other means by which to negotiate value from the economy

Do people actually talk like this about the livelihood of millions of people in real life, or is an affectation for HN?

Sure, plenty of people do. Head down to the local bow tie store, or visit your nearest seasteading ship and you'll find that almost everyone talks this way. Just be careful not to violate the NAP or you'll be blown away by someone's rocket launcher.

It’s simple emotional distancing. For many, talking about sad things makes them irrational or depressed, so if it has to be discussed it will be done so in academic terms.

The less conversant you are with the actual academia, the more contrived the terms you invent will be. I doubt many did more than undergrad business or economic here.

But there’s just so many of them. Between the hotel and restaurant industry we’re talking about more than 20 million people.

People don't realise that many of these business will be dead and wont come back after. The knock on effect will go up the supply chain. For example lobster trappers, fishers, ranchers, farmers bulk of their income comes from supplying to restaurants if restaurants are not buying prices will come down which will affect them further.

Having seen it first hand, the vast majority of those 20 million people are living check to check. even missing a few shifts puts them on the brink of homelessness. this is going to be very, very bad.

I’m pretty sure the police departments and judges aren’t going to be allowing evictions right now.

That's not exactly a realistic outlook on what will ultimately be a temporary situation.

It all depends on how long it is temporary. Current predictions are 2-3 months, which I think it is already too much time for most restaurants.

As always, new restaurants will take the place of shuttered ones. It won't be easy, but "eating out" as a practice will not disappear!

Germany's Robert Koch Institute just spoke of "up to two years" today...

(Near the bottom of the page if you can read German: https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/coronavirus-deutschland-rki... )

That “up to two years” applies to how long it would take for 60–70% of people to get the virus if you are aiming for a “herd immunity” scenario. It doesn’t claim that the present lockdown will last two years.

Oh, the first version of the text read differently, there is a correction at the bottom.

NYT opinion piece talks in terms of 3 or 4 "waves" of social distancing spread over 1-2 years.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/opinion/coronavirus-socia...

Not if I can help it. I'm ordering delivery constantly, and as soon as restaurants reopen my ass will be in a seat every night of the week to support what is personally my favorite industry. And I'll be tipping extra.

I would argue that an interesting intervention has to come from something more, because the restaurant industry has been suffering terribly and consolidating already, perhaps due to an increasingly unhealthy middle class.

How exactly has the industry been "suffering terribly"? In places I frequent (SF Bay Area, NYC) I see hundreds of long-term restaurants persisting, plus a constant stream of brand new places, all in the face of increasing minimum wages and other employer mandates/regulations. I'd also argue that the quality of both food and service have never been better. I'm not saying you're wrong (I have no clue), but it feels to me like I've been living in a golden age of eating out (expensive though it may be).

Expensive as they may be, restaurants have terrible margins. James Beard nominated, objectively successful places with >$1M gross are netting the annual income of someone who washes dishes [1]. They are operating on a fine line and I would imagine most of these places do not have the cash to weather through even a minor hitch in business.

https://www.eater.com/2020/3/9/21166993/how-much-to-run-a-re...

Reply on news.ycombinator.com