Missouri Sues Televangelist Jim Bakker for Selling Fake Coronavirus Cure | Hacker News Reader

Missouri Sues Televangelist Jim Bakker for Selling Fake Coronavirus Cure

npr.org

51 pointsrmason16 comments

its a bit weird to watch a state that snored through 30 years of medical knowledge on the safe and effective practice of abortion in favor of christian pseudoscience suddenly become concerned about the pseudoscience of a televangelists snake oil.

this is the same Missouri that insists women read a pseudoscience pamphlet prior to getting an abortion, including an entire passage about "fetal pain"

https://health.mo.gov/living/families/womenshealth/pregnancy...

Not surprising considering Bakker's past, or the magical thinking that often accompanies charismatic Christianity.

5 years in Federal prison - Fraud / Wire Fraud, Conspiracy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Bakker#Fraud_conviction_an...

Christianity in and of itself is based on magical thinking.

Is that dude still around? Did he not learn anything from going to jail for fraud?

Why silver specifically as a cure? Do these people specify any reason at all why this would kill virus in particular or have they just picked the next element at random from the periodic table to use in their scams?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_uses_of_silver

Whats the difference between quackery in corona times vs before? Either you protect gullible people all the time, or you consider them responsible people all the time. Only thing that has changed is the scale of the fraud.

The difference is the extra attention he's brought on himself. He was just a background scammer before, now he's inserted himself into an ongoing global crisis. It's the difference between annoying someone when they're in a good mood vs annoying them when they're in a bad mood and scared. Institutions are only as rational as the humans running them.

The department of justice has limited resources. It's impossible to go after literally every case of fraud, "all the time". Law enforcement is always picking and choosing what to target, and this guy advertising a coronavirus cure at this current time is like shooting off a flair in the dark asking to be noticed.

"evangelical" has become a red flag Christian denomination in my keyword repertoire after Trump.

I don't like this, I get what the state is saying but my problem is did he make it clear the claim was not based on scientific process or testing? If that was ambiguous then he should have made it clear. But if the viewers clearly knew his claims are based on faith or religious belief the state is clearly violating the rights of the seller and consumer to hold a religious belief. It comes down to this, did he decieve anyone? If not there was no fraud. It's a right because clearly claims like this cause a large amount of people to be against these beliefs.

Saying people have to accept and adjust their beliefs around modern science is the equivalent of banning all religions or beliefs. People have a basic human right to believe whatever they want without suffering harm for it,regarsless of how unusual or ridiculous it might be, so long as they don't cause harm to others. So what if some gullible older or vulnerable person bought into a belief society considers silly and threw away all their possessions to be cured of death or something, then they excercised their belief. The person that sold them the belief can be accuser of fraud or deception only if it can be proven that his claims were made with an intent to deceive ,in other words the accuser needs to prove their belief was falsely held in a court.

Either the people who bought the cure must have thought his claims were made on a scientific basis or it must be proven that he does not truly hold the belief he claims to believe and he professed that belief for a financial gain.

Intent shouldn't matter here, if you swindle money from a consumer (as in they don't get what they paid for), consumer protection laws should be written and enforced to protect these folks.

Also, in addition to consumer protection laws this is also public health and national security so I can't imagine a judge who wouldn't take that into consideration.

These charlatans are in the same boat as those who are gouging prices on face masks and hand sanitizer. Unethical to the point of criminality and damaging to our economy and markets.

> Intent shouldn't matter here, if you swindle money from a consumer (as in they don't get what they paid for), consumer protection laws should be written and enforced to protect these folks.

Yes and no, intent always matters. Did his claim clarify that the juice or whatever it is works only if the person has some belief? Then his intent to defraud can be proven by showing the consumers had true belief (witnesses).

Was it poisnous or harmful? Protect these folks? Like you or the law gets to protect people from their own beliefs?

Charlatans? So you want to prosecute authenticity of people's beliefs? Ethical? Since when is the law ethical or enforcer of ethics?

If you read my original comment, if fraud can be proven then that's that, I have no problem against that. But under what condition did he claim it would work? How many homeopathic medicines can you find at CVS, is that also fraud? Then why not pick on the national chains committing fraud. That's why I say this makes be very uncomfortable because the fact that he is saying some belief lead him to conclude it will cure is what is being challenged,not the mere ineffectiveness of the cure.

You can sell a homeopathic or herbal medicine that will cure cancer right now in any state without any legal issues. Being unethical is not a crime and if it is most people are going to prison.

Dude, just read the article. The first few lines make it clear that Mr. Bakker and his fake expert were absolutely trying to dupe people in to thinking that some nonsense-juice would cure the current corona virus. They even said it would cure SARS - another virus that has no cure. That’s fraud. I, for one, am heartened that we are finally seeing society not give a pass to complete idiots because “faith”. I almost wept when the manslaughter sentence was upheld against the faith-healing parents in Oregon who let their perfectly treatable baby die because “faith”. I never thought I would see the day. Well done Missouri.

I did, a "natural health expert" was the person he used to backup the claim,if that is found to be the same as a scientific authority then i am all for the lawsuit.

Dude, it's a nonsense juice to you you can hate it and tell people not to use it all you want and that's fine, I will do the same too. I don't support or associate myself with this guy.

I don't think those people who didn't treat their Child should be convicted of a crime either, if someone says for example "eating grass will cure cancer" they have every right to believe that and excercise that belief. The parents of that child had genuine belief and intent their lack of acceptance towards scientific and proven medical treatment is their right. Perhaps the child should have been taken away from them or something. But the whole point of being allowed to believe in something is so you can excercise that belief. If you really believe your scientific beliefs supersede all other beleifs then attempt to codify it in law and I hope there are sensible people left that will resist either peacefully or by force.

You don't get to police other people's beleifs, they are not your slaves, your right to believe what you want including science and medicine and practice it is predicated on your ability to tolerate others who disagree completely with you! That's the price you pay, just like when someone is a Nazi you don't get to kill them or if they hate women you don't get to discriminate against them. However horrible you think a belief,race,eth icity or gender is yours is toleratee because you tolerate them.

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