The first US layoffs from the coronavirus are here | Hacker News Reader

The first US layoffs from the coronavirus are here

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53 pointsspking25 comments

There are so many knock on effects of all this -- people will be unemployed with limited unemployment at best. They'll potentially lose their healthcare, and in the worst cases their homes. Schools are closing in Seattle, and they won't have lunch programs running until Monday which means a lot of kids are likely to go without adequate food.

We need to fix the safety net in our country, so when things like this happen we can all chip in to cover each other. Basic healthcare, affordable or public housing, eviction protections, food programs. These aren't radical ideas, we ought to be out here looking out for all of us.

We definitely need to fix a lot in this country, but then the only people that have ideas on how to fix things also want to tax options at vest or do any number of other insane things that will completely out weigh the good changes.

We're talking about basic food, shelter, and medical care. You don't think that maybe you could accept a small tax on your stock?

They don't have to go hand in hand? Sticking someone with a massive tax bill for unrealized gains doesn't do anything to help the former. If you haven't realized gains in a practical sense there's no money to pay the "small tax" with.

It's definitely not the first tax I'd choose to pay for all this. But it's the one the parent comment mentioned. I'd much rather see wealth taxes or raising income taxes, etc.

Make no mistake, we're all going to be missing out on medical care in the months to come. Some countries are already not able to get their regular non-covid related medications because China and India supply chain problems. In Italy if you go to the hospital and you're over 65 they just put you in a corner to die without any medical care whatsoever because there isn't enough to go around. Traumas are being turned around at the door. Got in a car accident and have a broken leg? Your healthcare is you get to limp now. According to WHO Italy has the second best healthcare system in the world, second only to France. It doesn't matter who is picking up the bill, it does not solve the pending problems.

Don't you already have basic shelter and medical care though? Shelters exist and doctors can't turn you away when you're in an urgent need for medical care. I think what's needed is beyond basic.

Those don't meet my definitions of basic. If shelters were sufficient we wouldn't have people sleeping rough. And basic medical care includes preventative care, medications, visits to specialists, urgent care, childbirth, etc.

>If shelters were sufficient we wouldn't have people sleeping rough.

Sure you would. Some people don't want to ask for help and some people don't know that they can ask for help. Just having shelters isn't the whole story.

>And basic medical care includes preventative care, medications, visits to specialists, urgent care, childbirth, etc.

All of this is available for urgent issues. Hospitals won't let you die on their doorstep, but if you have a problem that builds up long-term then you're screwed. I would say that this is pretty much what I would consider basic healthcare to be. What you're looking for is full-blown healthcare.

I don't disagree with you that this is probably the way forward, but I loathe it when people understate their demands. You can't just say "we want just basic care" but what you mean by "basic care" is full-blown healthcare. That's why people will fight you every step of the way with few compromises.

Ever been to LA? Skid row?

That's not a great example.

There are incredible resources available in LA for medical care and housing support. The people on skid row are electing to not use them, and they cannot be compelled to use them. It's a mental health/drug issue.

You can see a similar dynamic in NYC, where the city cannot turn you away from a shelter, and they've been spending hundreds of millions to put up homeless people in hotels for years. Yet still, there are thousands on the street. Not for a lack of option, but because they've specifically refused these services and outreach, and you cannot force them.

That's not a mental health issue at all. If you ever visited a homeless shelter, you'd know they're only slightly better than prisons (sometimes even worse, as theft is common) and are definitely not good for transient homeless at all, while the ones with serious issues get kicked out.

Shelter is not enough of help and rather terrible at fixing reasons for homelessness. In fact some of the rules in these seem designed to prevent job and house searching.

If anything, the programs would have to be extended to allow most anyone to crash and not strip people of hope.

To be clear, we're talking about the people on skid row and in similar situations.

I've volunteered extensively with BRC in NYC, I'm very familiar with the conditions of shelters in the US as well as the laws governing them. I'm very curious what rules you think are designed to prevent job searches: curfew? alcohol prohibition? no visitors?

The ones who are refusing these services, the ones out in the streets, below the highways, sleeping on subway cars are almost all suffering from substantial mental health or addiction issues, and both the number of psychiatric beds and the ability to compel the sick into them has disappeared over time leaving them on the street.

LA homeless outreach is quite extensive - not quite at the NYC level with right to shelter laws that are causing the enormous spillover into commercial hotels - but to compare the people on skid row to lower wage service workers who might find themselves unable to pay rent for two months is wildly disingenuous.

People having healthcare isn’t worth taxing options at vest?

Who gets options? The vast majority of public (tech) firm comp like this is done via RSUs for the last 20 years. Which, SURPRISE, is literally taxed as income at vesting at the vested value. It even shows up on the same W2 as regular paychecks.

So 1) isn’t this how it works already 2) why are RSU/options the equity you want to tax anyways?

There are a LOT of businesses running on thin margins and making just enough to cover costs each month. Even one month of things going to zero will ruin a whole host of restaurants, sole proprietors, real estate speculators, and on down the chain. I hope I'm wrong, but this kind of instant systematic reduction in the economy feels unprecedented within the last 50+ years.

They just needed to be rich enough to be bailed out. It's their fault.

Most aren't too big to fail, but it will be feasting time for vulture investors to buy up brands and IP.

SXSW already had big layoffs. They canceled the festival on Friday, and then on Monday (two days ago), they laid off over 50 people, about 1/3 of their full-time employees:

https://www.austinchronicle.com/daily/news/2020-03-09/sxsw-l...

The stat that was going around that a few years agos 6 in 10 americans don't have enough savings to meet $500-1000 sudden expense and at the time it was ridiculed. Now when all 6 need the money suddenly and they can't borrow from their friends. Shit will really hit the fan.

A bloody revolution has the momentum to cure a good amount of the corruption and redistribute what the aristocratic class stole.

The recession has begun.

This usually isn't good for politicians' re-election chances.

This is the calm before the storm. Expect riots.

"Riots" is an ignorant, dismissive term. Expect revolution.

It starts as a riot. If we can keep our composure, it will turn into a revolution.

EDIT: To explain my point a little better, a revolution starts with tearing something down. Tearing down town centers is not very productive but tearing down institutional racism is. The second half of the tear down is the important part. Is it replaced by something better?

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