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Comment by GuiA | Hacker News Reader

This is all nice post hoc rationalization, and they may well be factors. But the reality is that North American coastal tech companies are far more progressive when it comes to letting employees manage their own health than most others, especially European companies.

In my current Bay Area employment, if I am sick I stay home. If I feel well enough to work I do, otherwise I don't. No questions/justifications asked besides giving my teammates a heads up over text.

When I worked for a French company, being sick meant having to go to the doctor (writing a 23 euro check out of pocket that was reimbursed a month or two later) to get an official sick note to justify my absence from work, otherwise I would get penalized.

I don't disagree with your hypothesis, but also European paternalism is real.

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I could be wrong, but the required note from the doctor isn't paternalism, it's (I think) related to how workplace insurances and the healthcare system work in Europe, requiring proof for everything.

With the epidemy, remote consultation with a doctor will be more mainstream, it will be easier to book a quick 20 minutes consultation and get the dematerialized note.

In my opinion, requiring people to consult a professional only has benefit. People get help, employers get proof, doctors get work.

As of a few days ago, we in Bavaria are now able to get sick notes from our primary care doctors (Hausärzte) by phone for absences up to 7 days.

My employer, a large manufacturer, usually requires a doctor’s note for illnesses over three days, and I think that’s standard in Germany. Otherwise, think you have a cold? Stay home a day or two and drop the boss an email as soon as you can - no one wants you spreading it around! If I did that more than a few times a year, my boss might start requiring notes, but as long as we don’t seem to be abusing it, they assume we want to do our jobs when we can.

As for COVID-19, they’re being even more explicit: if you’ve recently been to Italy or other heavily-impacted place or have any of the symptoms, you must stay away from all company sites for 14 days, doing WFH if your position allows for it, or getting written off sick if you can’t (people actually running the machines or inspecting parts)

> In my opinion, requiring people to consult a professional only has benefit. People get help, employers get proof, doctors get work.

I think it only has downsides. If people really need help, they can get it even if they're not required to consult. When they don't really need help, they're just wasting everyone's time. Doctors around here (.fi) seem to have more than enough of work as it is, so there's no reason to create additional busywork for them; they've got more important things to attend to. Otherwise we might as well start breaking windows.

I know people who go to work (and school..) sick because getting permission to be sick and stay home is a PITA. Sigh.

I think it's related to how sick days are paid in Europe. In Poland, I get paid 80% of my salary on sick days, as such, to avoid abuse you need to go to the doctor to get it verified. My understanding is that in the US it's much easier to get a sick leave, but you don't get paid for its duration.

In US, most office employees get a set number of sick days year, get paid in full and all that is need is a text or email. I think I get 12, it's never an issue so I may have accrued more by now.

In that case they are just vacation days with a different name.

Exactly. At least in Germany sick days (for the first weeks) are paid for by the health insurance companies, which need a means to know this is a particular case for a payout, hence the need for the note.

weird, in the netherlands I just send a message to my boss saying im sick. He's also not allowed to ask what kind of illness I have, unless it lasts long and then a company doctor (not actually from the company, its just how they call them) has to see me.

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