Comment by ijidak | Hacker News Reader

Comment by ijidak | Hacker News Reader

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Recently, cops have been getting in trouble for shooting suspects as they run "away" from the police.

Interestingly, cops shooting at fleeing suspects is very common in TV shows and movies, but generally considered unacceptable in real life.

I've sometimes wondered if the cops who grew up watching these scenes over and over again as children, might be inadvertently bringing that same behavior into their real life jobs.

Of course the challenge of proving this, is well stated in this quote:

"Does TV viewing really contribute to all those reactions? ...At the heart of the debate is the difficulty of proving that one thing causes another...Similarly, it has been difficult to prove that the violence shown on television causes crime and antisocial behavior...A Canadian psychologist wrote: “The scientific evidence simply does not show that watching violence either produces violence in people or desensitizes them to it.” However, the American Psychological Association Committee on Media and Society said: “There is absolutely no doubt that higher levels of viewing violence on television are correlated with increased acceptance of aggressive attitudes and increased aggressive behavior.”"

Taken from: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102006362#h=13

However, among past social circles of mine, I can definitely say TV helped normalize behaviors that at one time weren't as common.

For example, I saw gangster rap, and all of the forms of entertainment that accompanied it's rise in the 90's, dramatically normalize arrogant and aggressive behavior among my peers in suburbia.

So to me, it's logical that TV and movies are one part of the cultural fabric that can indoctrinate new behaviors in the real world. Some of them really unfortunate.

  Recently, cops have been getting in trouble for shooting suspects as they run "away" from the police.

I don't see this as commonplace at all. Generally, deadly force is authorized only in response to an imminent threat to oneself or others. Shooting someone fleeing would be justifiable only if that person was considered likely to harm others during that flight.

TV/film was always ludicrously loose on use of deadly force by police. Even Bert the cop shot at an unarmed, fleeing George Bailey in "It's a Wonderful Life"!

Rather than just saying it does or doesn't cause it, I think we should also discuss how it may cause it. Because I think the sole extent of the influence is that it suggests the idea of doing it. And if someone explicitly brings it up and tells people not to do it, then that will be sufficient to make people not act on the idea.

In other words, I think there might be a causality chain, but one that can be easily broken.

Just search for the Movie Overgames on YouTube. It shows how the psychology was used in gameshows of the 50ies to reeducate Germans. TV was thought of as means to heal.

I think series like 24 were no accident. They pushed the limit farther. Today even kid movies like Pets is more than slapstick comedy. Even there you see torture as valid means.

People in other countries see the same amount of violence in TV or videos games yet they have much less violence rates. I remember me thinking "that kind of thing only happens in the US" when watching violence (and lawsuits) in TV. I wonder if it's the proliferation of American entertainment that forms part of these behaviors.

Lower violence rates period? Or lower gun violence rates?

Don't violence rates vary quite a bit from country to country?

For example, parts of Central America are terribly violent.

I'm also not saying that TV is the sole contributing cause.

But that, I just wonder if cops are inadvertently affected by growing up watching how cops in TV shows routinely handle cases.

For example, a few months ago in Florida, cops got in a shoot out on a busy freeway and used bystander vehicles for cover.

Many were horrified, suggesting the cops should have let the criminals flee, rather than engaging in a shootout using civilian vehicles as cover.

But, how many TV shows and movies show cops ignoring bystanders.

Could it be that some inexperienced cops inadvertently slip into doing what they've grown up seeing in movies and TV shows?

I can't prove it, but I've just wondered if that's what's happening.

For sake of argument, apparently up until 1985 it was legal to shoot a fleeing felon:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleeing_felon_rule

So at least some of those movies may have just been accurately portraying the practices of the time.

To address the normalisation specifically, and how media portrayal does influence these behaviours, the CSI Effect is a classic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSI_effect

I've always been interested in this paper, which suggests that the idea of flashbacks as a symptom of PTSD coincides may be culturally-influenced and coincide with developments in cinema.

You're going to have to give me some examples of cops shooting fleeing suspects being common in TV and movies.

I can't think of a single one off the top of my head.

Gladwell covered a case study in his book “Blink” that was interesting. As you will guess, he’s exploring what goes into split second decisions like those

totally random because I just saw it an hour ago, but here is one

https://youtu.be/dly3yjYnW6U?t=163

How about this scene from It's a Wonderful Life. Is this movie still popular at Christmas time ?

https://youtu.be/6SLDMMGzkyI?t=61

But regarding torture, in the 70's Christian/Roman era themed movie were commonly shown on TV. As a child I concluded that every man eventually gets tortured. While we were watching a particularly brutal scene I asked my dad if he was ever tortured and didn't believe him when he said "no". But if TV weren't enough, we had a crucifix in every room and I found the normalization and ubiquity of depictions of torture depressing and confusing, leaving me convinced I was born on the wrong planet.

The reason the crucifix is the symbol of Christianity is related to what you're talking about, but the idea is that the normalization is to remind us we are not to fear torture. In particular, that we can be like Jesus and sell people out, even if under torture or the threat of torture, because we really do have free will. After all, Jesus could have cooperated with his denouncers and sold out the apostles, but instead he kept his silence and resolve and was tortured to death on the cross.

Supposedly the patron saint of the tortured is Epipodius (just looked it up), but in my faith I actually believe there is no patron saint of the tortured. If you're tortured that's a cut above every other predicament and the only saint for you is the patron saint of all patron saints, Jesus, because he was the original Christian to get tortured for his faith.

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