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Comment by robert_foss | Hacker News Reader

Being a Swede, who now lives in Germany I would say that there must be a middle ground between the extreme cash dependency of Germany and the opposite in Sweden.

I have no idea how you do your shopping and end up not getting a pool of useless 1/5 cent coins. People literally laugh you in the face if you try to purchase things with them. Your only option is to give them away or collect them in a jar.

And needing to constantly go to ATMs just to keep notes on you is kind of ridiculous.

However I've also been to card only restaurants in Sweden when the card network was down. There was no plan B, the payment interaction just fell apart.

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Japan /Tokyo is super efficient in this. Every metro station allows you to add your pennies to your metro card in an efficient coin counter.

Bakeries in France now have this as well

The 1 and 2 cents problem can easily be solved by agreeing to stop using them and round all transactions to the nearest. Think we stopped using 1 and 2 cent coins in the Netherlands more than 15 years ago

The ironic thing here is that Sweden already does that. there is no 1c equivalent coin, the smallest denomination of currency is roughly 10c (1SEK) so things already get rounded.

We have signs at counters here in New Zealand that informs customers that the store uses ‘Swedish rounding’ for the same reason.

Ending up with useless coins is also super prevalent in the states because tax isn't included in list price and everyone prices things as $X.99 so you always end up with useless change. Super annoying and I wish they would change the law to force list prices to be the final price all things included (no hidden fees either).

That law would have the drawback of making tax increases invisible.

I'd rather be taxed by higher list prices than by some .0875 surcharge that is inconveniently difficult to calculate in one's head.

If I pick up an item that claims to be $1.99, and plunk it down on the counter with $2, I don't want the cashier to say "That'll be $2.16, please." The label says $1.99 . They could have added the tax when they printed it. If they wanted the label price to be $1.99, they could have made the base price $1.83, and added the tax back in to make it $1.99 on the shelf.

If I go to a concession stand at a ball game, their list prices are all-taxes-included. $2 for a hot dog means if I ask for a hot dog, and pay $2 exactly, no one needs to mess around with change. Why can't other merchants do that?

It's not like consumers can just choose to stop buying things if the sales tax goes up. "What's that? Sales taxes went from 8.75% to 9.15% ? Oh, never mind, then, I'll just stop buying anything from here on out."

Some US states make that illegal, and others require the receipt to still break out how much of the total charge was tax.

Only if the law forbids also showing the proportion of the total cost that is tax.

Fair point, I'd never thought about that. Although, I do suspect that in practice no one would actually do that unless the law mandated that as well.

I collect the coins in the ashtray of my car and then once in a while empty it in a machine at my local bank that counts it and transfers the amount to my bank account.

Also, i don't need ATMs that often. 100€ last me for a while and you can of course also use a card if you don't have enough cash on you.

> And needing to constantly go to ATMs just to keep notes on you is kind of ridiculous.

Not sure how it is in Germany, but we have ATMs on every street corner, so it's not a big deal.

I do prefer paying via Apple Pay though.

This is a bit difficult in Germany:

First of all, some cities like Berlin (which might be the worst offender here) are ridiculous in terms of how cash-dependent they are. There are whole areas (e.g. Kreuzberg) where you can't find a restaurant that accepts (debit or credit) card payment, even if you eat for 20+€. So, going out for lunch can deplete your cash quite rapidly.

Secondly, private banking is a huge cost centre for banks right now. This means that banks institute a lot of restrictions on when and where you can get cash. Many common banks (e.g. Sparkassen, Volksbanken) only allow you to withdraw money without charge from very specific ATMs, so you have to know where those are; if you withdraw from another ATM, you might have to pay a ridiculous amount of money (e.g. 5€), which is why you'd only use it for an emergency. Some other banks allow you to withdraw from any ATM without charge, but they have been starting to add more and more restrictions, e.g. you can only withdraw money 5x a month or something like that.

I solved the 'penny problem'. I throw them away or leave them with the shopkeeper.

Keeping cash is a weekly issue with me? Not quite 'all the time'.

You're right it can be impractical. For me I mostly solved it by 1) giving back the 1, 2 and 5 cent coins I receive as change and 2) withdrawing cash with my grocery purchases, which is possible in many stores.

Some German banks (e.g., Commerzbank) have an "Einzahlungsautomat", basically a reverse ATM that accepts deposits as bills or coins. Collect the coins in a jar and once a year hit the ATM.

I live in Germany and routinely use one and two cent coins when paying exact amounts.

Still have to experience someone laughing in my face for doing so.

Holding up the queue, eh?

I use € coins for tips or cereal bar purchases. In my country you'd get odd looks if you did that, because we have a bill that's roughly equivalent to 1€. But in Germany or Austria you'll get smiles and herzlichen grüßen because sparing-inclined citizens of the aforementioned countries only tip small change like 10 or 20 cents. Doing it often enough at a Greek tavern gets you freebies.

> Holding up the queue, eh?

Hardly. Just have your coins ready at the cashier. Often you can do the math yourself and present the money immediately and in the correct amount. On some glorious and surprisingly frequent days, you can empty your coin pouch in one swoop. It’s a nice little game.

Anyway, nobody is obliged to sacrifice their privacy because someone in the queue can’t manage their time properly.

I didn't keep all my coins in the coin pouch at once. Instead, if I'm going out for just one shopping trip, I'd bring only the minimum number of small coins to make approximately any amount (eg, 1x1¢, 2x2¢, 1x5¢, 4x20¢). As long as you get the last digit right, it doesn't matter if you're some multiple of 10¢ over, and it's easier to get the last digit right when you have fewer coins to sort through to find the one you need.

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