Comment by fab1an | Hacker News Reader

Comment by fab1an | Hacker News Reader

One of the advantages of running your own business is that you set the tempo and values of it yourself. You. No one else. If you end up with something that isn't working out for you, you're doing it wrong.

At my previous company, one of our (somewhat implicit) values was "suffering is not a KPI".

And even though there are times when things are rougher, these should be exceptions, not the rule.

At the same time, working 100 hours per week is the most bullshit business myth of all.

This is usually touted by the type of person who spends a lot of time in meetings or 'catching up on important news', and within industries where people are flat out lying to each other about how much they actually work (management consultants come to mind, and certainly some investor types.)

When you meet these people IRL you realize many of their 100 hours are spend sipping coffee in another part of town while having casual meetings, prior to running some personal errand. While some of this may qualify as 'work', it is not the type of 'work-work' that a naive coder/entrepreneur is pursuing en route to their burn out!

The 80/week people I have seen are "too busy" to stop and ask themselves if they are spending their time efficiently. They are focused on the short term tasks right in front of them. It is like someone saying they are too busy to get an oil change or new tires so they keep driving their car until they are stuck on the side of the road.

This seems like the "oh you're busy, you just haven't learned how to manage your time effectively" feedback that's not helpful. Someone relatively smart probably has a decent idea of the constraint set in front of them. Let's say the company is close to failing and by working your absolute hardest you can keep it alive for 9 months. Would you not do it?

Like maybe there's some insight on time management but after rudimentary time management...it's probably something else.

At some point, working more hours makes you less productive. As an obvious example, you can’t work literally every hour of every day, since without sleep or food you can’t function. Now perhaps the curve for you really does peak at 100 hours/week, or 80 hours/week, but frankly I doubt it.

Acknowledging that there are thresholds for productivity, it also dramatically depends on the type of work and the objectives. Diminishing returns are bad for some tasks, acceptable for others, but both are subject to the types of deadlines. Implementing a half-good feature just in time for a big marketing event might be worthwhile or it might not, but cold calling potential customers to keep from failing generally is, and is somewhat less subject to declines from productivity loss.

At some point, not only do returns diminish, but they actually become negative because your productivity during the first forty hours of the week goes down when you don’t get enough sleep, relaxation, etc. Perhaps that point is at 100 hours/week, or more, but I’d wager that it’s at the 80 hours/week mark where working more decreases your productivity.

And yes, it does depend on the activity, but even cold calling customers all day can become too much, or an extra ten hours of calling could make your sixty hours of programming less productive.

Sometimes they’re even too busy to even get gas, which very quickly ends poorly.

Suffering, indeed, is not a KPI but your takeaway is off.

I use Timing app to track my digital. I spin up at 11am, get reving by 1pm and don't stop until I pull up to the drive way at 1am or 2am. Monday to Sunday.

There are plenty like me as owner-operators that put in the time/work to get shit done until there are enough rev to hire out.

At the alphabet soup company we worked maybe 11am until 4pm, wrap up to go home on the busses, put in another 1-2 hrs at night time to checkin. But during that 3-5 hrs it's highly focused flow that takes dozens of other supporters and personnel to get to.

The pirates that go flitter about, whether in silicon valley or los angeles, to get production done, show going, or keep it moving, all work however they work.

>I spin up at 11am, get reving by 1pm and don't stop until I pull up to the drive way at 1am or 2am. Monday to Sunday.

This person's obviously crushing it.

I work 85ish hours a week and nearly 100% of it is spent on actual productive work.

Exception does not make a rule.

How many years have you spent doing it?

I did that once for 18 months and spent two years burned out afterwards. And bragging about it is basically a hubris of considering oneself a superhuman.

3ish? Haven't actually kept meticulous records but the workload is a matter of circumstance.

Good for you!

edit: not actually good for you

Doesn't seem bad for me either.

Is this 100% actually coding?

Nope. Probably about 50% coding.

Can I ask what's the other 50%?

I believe the focus of what's being said is that people who claim to work these insane hours, _and_ manage to keep all other plates in their personal lives spinning, usually do not spend that much time doing productive work.

That is not to say that there are others who can do many actual productive hours. But usually, at least in my personal experience, when one does that they are sacrificing other aspects of their personal life in the hopes that when they achieve their goals they can then deal with everything else.

In my experience, things don't really work out all that well. Ideally one should find balance in the now.

It kind of depends what the work is and if it's tiring. Take someone like Warren Buffett - he's reading and thinking pretty much all working hours but it's what he likes to do and not especially tiring. Seems to work quite well in that case. The only real downside seems to have been his family complaining they didn't see enough of him.

How many plates do I need in my personal life to be balanced?

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