Hickley argues that simple != easy. "Easy" is inherently subjective, and only tells us how easy something is for the actor attempting that thing; if you know more about a domain, things related to that domain become easier. If you knew how to tie knot A and I knew how to tie knot B, we would both find our respective knots easier. "Simple" is more objective, insofar as anything can be. We could judge the complexity of knots in a rope based on how many times the rope turns over on itself, and that complexity would not be dependant on your knowledge of particular knots. In principle we should be able to agree on which knot is more complex even if we still have an easier time tying the ones we are familiar with.
Of course you can mount an argument that simple is used as a synonym of easy, because it often is, but I like the idea of simple being the opposite of "complex" and "complex" meaning "many-folded" rather than "difficult."
> Finally, this is going to be more accessible to more users to Mozilla since now they are using Matrix.
> I disagree, IRC is as simple as it gets. This might discourage some people from joining.
laughs in Simple Mail Transfer Protocol
Imagine that your protocol for choosing dinner with your SO is:
You: What would you like:
Them: I don't care.
There, simple! Getting some useful information out of that is an exercise left for the reader.
It's not really helpful when people try to describe IRC as easy simply because it resembles text based paradigms that developers are familiar with.
i would never recommend vim to a someone that is just beginning when vscode is right there.
Vim is arguably simple in neither of these senses, but most Vi clones are much less complex than Vim or NeoVim.
I made a mistake though, nobody else in the comment chain was talking about Rust or developers. I had read a comment in another part of the thread which linked to Mozilla's forums [0] which mentioned more people in the developers channels on the Matrix instance, which I had mistakenly assumed was part of this comment chain, hence the question relating to developers.
[0] https://discourse.mozilla.org/t/synchronous-messaging-at-moz...
>The number of participants in our primary development channels has already exceeded their counterparts on IRC at their most active [...]
Case in point: virtually no one uses Emacs. Even Vim is diminishing; most devs now use Visual Studio Code.
> most devs now use Visual Studio Code.
You seem to live in some other world than I ...
I work on the East Coast at a company that's over 100 years old -- though they are modernizing their development efforts (something I'm heavily involved with). And literally everyone else in our portfolio uses VSCode to develop with except for legacy Java stuff which is usually manipulated with Eclipse.
A Triplebyte study from two years ago showed that most developers undergoing their interview process used Visual Studio Code: https://triplebyte.com/blog/editor-report-the-rise-of-visual...
While Triplebyte is Silly Valley, presumably they have clients outside the bubble.
I don't think different default functionality fundamentally changes its class.
Around 30% use vim or Emacs. Linux is about as popular as Mac and windows is still as popular as both combined.
Worth noting that simply adding means that yes, Vim+Emacs ~= 30%, but VS.Code + VS ~= 80%
I'm thinking that plenty of users use both an ide and a text editor but few use more than one text editor. For example few use emacs because its required by their job thus emacs + vim probably IS 30% but VS.Code + VS probably has a substantial overlap.
I may or may not be using a Mac at some point during the day (because Apple forces me to, to do iOS development), but usually whether my host is Windows or Mac, I have 3~8 Linux VMs running at any particular time.
Now, I will use SublimeText, instead of vi, from time-to-time (not often), but I don't think I am out of the mainstream...
BTW: I up-voted you because I think you have a point worth discussing, and that's hard to do when you are down-voted to hell, even if I don't agree with you...
t. using vim, tmux, i3 and linux.
connecting to irc.mozilla.org...
bla bla bla
/part (or simply just (Q)uit from the menu)
If you did not (Q)uit from the menu yet, either do it or
/quit
If you preset some autoconnects and autojoins, there is no need to know any of the commands.
You have a list, often preset with all the IRC servers, worldwide. Just choose the one you want and add it to "Favorites".
There, list all channels, search the ones, that cover your topic (via text input box) and add them to "Autojoins" or "Favorites". The preset gets created automatically, either globally or per network. In other lingo, it's called: an application's preferences.