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Comment by evanprodromou | Hacker News Reader

I don't agree. I think that the bilingualism is a strength. After all, the strongest Open Source markets in the world today are international. If Montreal can represent a bridge between North America and Europe, there's an opportunity for synergy there.

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How will Montreal represent a bridge to anyplace besides France?

While France isn't nothing (60 million people with a bit less disposable income than the US), USA+Canada+France is less than 20% bigger than USA+Canada.

Adding to your point, it is very important to note that France French != Quebec French. When a Montrealer goes to Paris and starts speaking French, the Parisian will get confused and respond in English if they know it.

I think you're exaggerating. Parisians may tease Quebecers, but that's just to keep themselves in teasing shape. Teasing is a sport, you gotta practice. Most French people will be able to understand most Montrealers.

It should be noted that France itself has many regional accents that are quite strong.

Also to be noted, there is a steady flow of young French people immigrating to Montreal.

Most French people will be able to understand most Montrealers sometimes, in the same way that someone from Britain would be able to understand a Cajun sometimes. The language is very divergent, with franglais words sprinkled here or there, shortened words, differing word usage, etc.

On top of that, for the reasons above as well as others (including their accent), people from France really dislike listening to people from Montreal speak 'French', and will avoid it whenever possible. This is similar to the way Francophones from Montreal will speak English rather than French to an Acadian, because their accent is really just that bad.

I don't know enough about the Cajun English language to comment on your analogy.

For what it's worth, here is wikipedia's article on Quebec French [citation needed]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_French#Mutual_intelligib...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_French#Overview_of_the_r...

You seem to be living in Canada, but perhaps somewhere else? Our views are pretty different.

I'm a francophone, born in Quebec. I have never seen a francophone (from anywhere in the world) speak in English to another because the accent was too strong. Most francophones in Montreal actually speak pretty bad English, at least once you leave the technical spheres, and any Quebecois can speak something closer to "international French" when he knows an European is listening.

A large portion of my classmates at university were French people. They had no trouble understanding the local accent. They might be puzzled by some special expressions we have for snow, for "take a chair", for shortened forms ("je ne le sais pas"->"jelsépa"), swear words, etc. but nothing that can't be explained fairly quickly. The difference between French from France and from Quebec is important but I'd say comparing it to Cajun is exaggeration. It is not my impression that French people dislike Montreal French, but rather that they find it amusing at first (it sounds like a rural accent) and eventually just get used to it. Many Quebecois humorists and singers are popular in France as well.

Franglais is a large debate, but in short, the French are as guilty of it, if not more than the Quebecois. Many words like "email" or "shopping" tend to be said in English in France but in French in Quebec ("courriel", "magasinage").

Well, my sources for my comments on French vs. Quebecois consist of ten or twelve French individuals I've spoken with on the topic (whose views were unanimous, and who spoke for the people they knew at home as well). Likewise, my views on Quebecois vs. Acadians are taken from an Acadian friend who had moved to Montreal, and whose coworkers refused outright to speak French to her because they didn't want to listen to her accent.

Put another way: I've never met someone from France who didn't speak ill of Quebecois French when asked, and I've never met an Acadian who felt entirely welcomed in Montreal. They could be exceptions.

At least 3 quebecois have told me they have had a french replying to them in english (in international contexts, like a conference). I guess it is only a reaction to an accent many of them have not heard before, but after a second they understand they are talking to a french-canadian

This idea that the french canadian accent is cajun is a myth, bordering on preposterous. It's actually based on pre Napoleonic "Royal Court French:"

http://www.republiquelibre.org/cousture/FRANC2.HTM

Sure, maybe two farmers from rural areas of each country won't understand each other, or a second language speaker who speaks in one accent won't understand the other, but otherwise it's simply pretentiousness.

The French definitely make fun of Quebecers but will also definitely not speak English instead. If the Quebecer has gone to school (which I believe is the target audience here), the accent will just be a minor nuisance.

It's not limited to language. It's also very much about culture. Montreal is literally and figuratively half-way between North America and Europe.

Montreal is literally and figuratively half-way between North America and Europe.

Either I'm really bad at geography, or it's only figuratively and not literally.

It's a literal statement for people on the west coast. It becomes figurative as you go east.

Montreal has a lot of other nationalities represented beyond the French. It's not unusual to find someone who speaks French, English, and their mother tongue. My wife, for example, speaks Italian, French, and English.

In my experience, Montrealers develop for an international market by default. Everyone knows the domestic market will be too small to sustain whatever you're doing. And your initial business plan will have to involve two languages and probably two currencies and two legal regimes -- at minimum. So in some ways it's even more internationally-minded than a small EC country.

I was very surprised when I started working in the US and encountered this concept of "internationalization". ;)

I'm not saying it's a killer advantage, but it could be leveraged.

French is an official language in ~40 countries.

For localization purposes, people in Montreal are experienced with issues that are required to translate software properly. They deal with this stuff all the time for local businesses.

Oh well, this happens everywhere in non-english-speaking countries.

When your default market is multilingual, you don't just translate your software, you deal with supporting more than one language from the start. I don't know how many markets are bilingual by default.

I'm not saying that internationalization is the hardest problem to grasp, but there is a difference between building a single language system versus a multilingual system.

[edit] re: > non-english-speaking countries When your non-english-speaking country also speaks english, you're happier.

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