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Comment by blakesterz | Hacker News Reader

Reminds me of when Boston tried to make some changes to start times for a number of reasons:

What happened when Boston Public Schools tried for equity with an algorithm

https://apps.bostonglobe.com/ideas/graphics/2018/09/equity-m...

"But no one anticipated the crush of opposition that followed. Angry parents signed an online petition and filled the school committee chamber, turning the plan into one of the biggest crises of Mayor Marty Walsh’s tenure. The city summarily dropped it. The failure would eventually play a role in the superintendent’s resignation."

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Indeed, school hours are tied to work hours. Now and forever.

> What happened when Boston Public Schools tried for equity with an algorithm

Ugh

One thing I hated about this story was people complaining about being controlled by a black box algorithm. This was not a black box algorithm. It was, in fact, the opposite. It was an optimization solver that found the best outcome as defined by you given the constraints as defined by you. It could not be more transparent how it worked.

The Boston plan was to move a lot of younger students to earlier start times. People seem to just shrug this part off for some reason. People talk about the benefit of later start times for teenagers, but the negative impact that earlier start times would have on younger students gets ignored.

The younger kids should be going earlier, at least around here. They start after 9:00! They've had two of their most alert hours of the day already by then.

This is so the older kids can start earlier. There are only so many buses. Adjust one to start later and the other starts earlier, and vice-versa. The high schools should have the 9:00 start and the elementaries should get their 7:40 start or whatever it is, assuming the whole window can't be adjusted.

Nb. I've had it explained to my by people in education that early starts in high school are insisted upon by the sports folks, so they can have longer afternoon practices with sunlight in the Winter, and that there's no hope of switching start times up on a large scale without attacking that constituency and winning, which is... probably not gonna happen.

The Boston plan was to start elementary school kids at 7:15, which is why parents were complaining about forcing young kids out of bed at 5:30-6:00 am. Not an unreasonable criticism, I think (there were also complaints from working families that they'd have to pay more for after school childcare).

But you're right that part of the problem was that there was no interest in spending more on transportation (or in generally improving the poor state of transportation). I'd say it's also worth questioning why we insist that all students need to go to school at the same time. The education system seems needlessly rigid (though I suppose imposing a certain amount of conformity is one of its goals).

Oof, OK, yeah, no one should have to be somewhere at 7:15AM. 7:30's pushing it.

...sports folks, so they can have longer afternoon practices with sunlight in the Winter...

What is this, the ski team? No popular USA scholastic winter sport takes place outside. (It's cold outside in winter!) Indoors we have artificial lights. In my experience, high school basketball teams regularly practice in the morning before school anyway; they would not complain about that starting at 7:30 rather than 6:00 AM.

I guess I just assumed the reason was for sunlight, which is why they can't just have morning practices (also dark, unless they school starts really late). Regardless, reason I've been given (by people who'd asked, and had this reason given to them by folks working in school admin) is that early-start high school is sacred to the athletic department, for whatever reason.

If that was the case, it was probably more for football after the return to standard time. (Football determines everything.) That may be less important now that the return is a week later: there isn't a great deal of football season left after the first week in November. Also ISTM there has been a great deal of ideological turnover in high school football in recent years. The old dudes have retired; their successors might be more open to reason. Having your entire team less tired, all the time is likely to be a competitive advantage...

> They've had two of their most alert hours of the day already by then.

[citation needed]

It’s obviously not universal but small children very commonly wake up early. In my house it’s usually the 6 year old coming into our room at 6am asking if she can go play.

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