Comment by rayiner | Hacker News Reader

Comment by rayiner | Hacker News Reader

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> The British had something precious until not long ago: a working welfare state, a welcoming society, and an influx of enthusiastic citizens from all across the EU. It’s sad that they are throwing it all away.

That’s a breathtakingly arrogant assertion. The UK and it’s constituent countries have a 2,000 year history. England invented parliamentary government—it eased gently into democracy several hundred years ago, whereas on most of the continent, democracy had to be achieved through violent revolution. Much of the EU didn’t even achieve democracy until the 20th century. It invented many of the concepts of legal rights that are encoded in law across the world. Many countries around the world have language in their constitutions that traces its origins back to the 800 year old Magna Carta. Countries that use British law account for 40% of world GDP. English speaking countries account for a quarter of the world’s GDP. The EU is a tiny blip in British history.

"It eased gently into democracy several hundred years ago"? It's a shame it didn't extend that courtesy to my homeland, Ireland—we were one of those countries that had to wrest democracy through violent revolution, except it was from the British state. As someone who's great-grandfather was lynched by British soliders, I'll thank you not to whitewash your state as a benevolent beacon of democracy and human rights.

I didn’t say it was benevolent, I said it was successful. That said, it has done better by its former colonies than pretty much any other world power. I’m Bangladeshi (married to an American whose family immigrated Ireland). My respect for Britain is a bit grudging at best. But let’s be real—both Bangladesh and Ireland have benefited from British language, institutions, law, and culture.

>> But let’s be real—both Bangladesh and Ireland have benefited from British language, institutions, law, and culture

Well you cannot check out the alternate world where this didn't happen.

How can you be a proponent of democracy at home and still be a colonialist ? To give an example of this British schizophrenia, John Stuart Mill, who wrote On Liberty, worked for the EIC for 35 years. I am still trying to understand how he would reconcile this with what he wrote.

"I am still trying to understand"

Please be encouraged to continue trying to understand and resist falling into the easier binary explanation currently popular in politics. History is your guide.

I agree, and I am not trying to judge him here (who am i!). All you can do is try to understand them through the things they have written.

I understand one can hold conflicting ideas knowingly or without realizing the contradiction between them. Or may be you don't have an option because it is the only game in town.

We see this analogue in our own times, people support freedom yet work on mass surveillance technologies/companies willingly. Do they not understand where it leads ? or just ignore it, or shrug helplessly.

>both Bangladesh and Ireland have benefited from British language, institutions, law, and culture.

You must be joking. If you look at historical share of world GDP, or (most strikingly in the case of Ireland) historical population, you get a very good picture of the 'benefits' of english institutions. Ireland has still not recovered to the pre-british occupation population levels.

Ireland was part of the domain of the English crown for 800 years. There is no way that the current Irish population is below that of 1169 when Strongbow invaded. At the time Ireland's only cities were those founded by the Vikings and they were by any modern standard towns. The rest of the island was mostly pastoral. Anyone with the slightest knowledge of Irish history would know that.

It also enslaved almost half of the world.

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