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Window management is truly a preference thing.

I feel the opposite of what you state. To me, a non tiling-window manager burdens me with moving and resizing windows, mostly with my mouse. With i3, its algorithm sizes and places the window ideally 90% of the time, and I fix up the 10% of the time with key commands, never needing my mouse.

My windows being so predictable and so easily maintained with the keyboard enables me to stay in flow much better. I basically never think about my windows, it's just a "solved problem" for me.

It's unfortunate that tiling window managers are really only available on Xorg based OSes. I feel if Windows and OSX had really good tiling window management (the available solutions are nowhere near as good as what something like i3 can do), then tiling window managers would be much more popular IMO.

For me the built in shortcuts to snap things to the left, right, and push to second monitor are all I really need and I get both tiling and non-tiling with windows/OS X/gnome... never understood why people go i3 when the shortcuts are built in to what you likely are already using. To each their own though, if i3 works better for y’all I think that is great too.

Shortcuts are great when you have two windows, not so much when you have more than four

Yeah, it really is about preference. FWIW, i3 allows you to opt out of tiling if you really want to. For me it's alt+shift+space, and the window pops out onto its own layer, and can then be manipulated with the mouse.

Yup, this is what I use for editing. Vifm in whatever directory I'm working it but small and floating. Mod+Spc focuses my nav, Mod+Spc to focus the underlying windows.

Have it set up to spawn vim or VSCode instances using shared buffers and it's crazy handy. I can't go back to vimsplits!

The built-in snapping only works for two windows per screen though. If you want 3 or more, you're stuck with the mouse.

There's the gtile gnome shell extension. I have shortcuts defined to snap windows to predetermined regions of the screen, which can be defined on an arbitrary grid.

That plus gnome's builtin shortcuts to move windows to different monitors and different desktops, and setting alt-tab to "switch windows directly" gives me pretty much everything I need.

Windows don't start tiled, but this doesn't feel like a big drawback. When matplotlib pops up five plot windows I'd rather they stay the aspect ratio they were intended, anyway. But I'll snap my text editors, terminals, and file browser windows to half/quarter of the screen.

It's pretty great, and I get to stay within GNOME which is the 'happy path' for linux desktop use IMHO.

> and places the window ideally 90% of the time, and I fix up the 10% of the time

you can replicate whatever setup you had using i3-save-tree which outputs a json file e.g

  i3-save-tree > .config/i3/workspace1.json

and then load that upon startup (from your i3/config):

  exec --no-startup-id i3-msg 'workspace $ws1; append_layout ~/.config/i3/workspace1.json'

or see full config mentioned in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22303128

There's also i3-layout-manager [https://github.com/klaxalk/i3-layout-manager], which lets you do this more easily. It integrates super nicely with Rofi, too.

Controllable constrains. Tiling wms give you more hooks than anything else, so more control than anything else. I often have more than 4 or more workspaces in i3 and I love being able to swap between them with ease. Many users of tiling wms have specific hotkeys that grab windows or workspaces or populate workspaces with a predefined layout. Its nice to have programmatic control over the interface to your computer.

E:

> That even control freaks like Apple, who like to think only they know what's best for their consumers, doesn't use a tiling only WM in their OS is telling.

I don't think so. Like any other pro tool it has a learning curve which without a little time investment renders the tool useless. I think the only telling thing about Apple's choice of window management features is that they shoot for the lowest features possible so that users can learn them all as quickly as possible. On-boarding > user control for Apple.

I think the GUI that Apple ships is successful in so far as all of its features are literally visible. You literally have a mouse and a clickable pad, you always have maximize/minimize buttons. Any more advanced software has "hidden" features in that they hide behind menus and hotkeys. Though everything that is hard about "modern" computational interfaces is that discoverability is shit, see [1]

[1]: https://www.fastcompany.com/3053406/how-apple-is-giving-desi...

I don't know about other tiling WMs, but i3 does let you stack windows. In the default config, super-s makes a vertical stack and super-t makes a tabbed stack.

Most of the time it's easier to keep different windows in different workspaces though. My first five workspaces are always

1. Browser

2. Browser

3. Code

4. Messaging apps (in a vertical stack)

5. Terminals

Pressing the number for the workspace where you keep the window you want is way easier on the eyes and brain then hitting alt tab and examining the pop-up panel to see how many more times you have to hit it.

Stacking in that case refers to stacking in the z-direction, ie. a normal 'floating' window manager

Yeah, I meant overlapping / floating freely resizable windows.

i3 also allows you to open windows floating and turn any window into a floating window

> Even Microsoft switched from a tiling WM from Windows 2.0 on wards and has stuck to it (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiling_window_manager ).

MS recently added snap abilities with Windows 10 that lets you split / orient 2 windows and control them with hotkeys. This isn't quite a tiled window manager but it is going out of their way to introduce a lighter form of dealing with a tiled interface.

They also released "FancyZones"[0], which is a window manager (although much different to how i3 works unfortunately). It's still in its infancy and likely has years to go before it can be compared to any popular Linux tiled window manager, but they are dedicating resources to the concept.

Until you've used a tiled window manager, it's hard to see the benefits.

[0]: https://github.com/microsoft/PowerToys/blob/master/src/modul...

True. The original point still stands though - both Apple and Microsoft have found that the majority prefer stacking windows as it is easier to learn and use.

> both Apple and Microsoft have found that the majority prefer stacking windows as it is easier to learn and use.

Yes but Microsoft also found that a majority of folks want a tabbed terminal interface and icon emojis before being able to select text with a mouse in a terminal.

So I'm not sure how much credit you can give them for knowing what people really want in the end.

Also, I've spent some amount of time teaching old people how to use computers (ie. teaching my dad how to use Windows better so he can day trade). One of the most confusing concepts to him is how windows can just disappear or "get lost". Stacked windows that can be behind other windows or get minimized by pressing the wrong icon by accident is a lot more confusing than having a 2D plane of existence where you can see everything at once because the only way you end up hiding them is by explicitly doing things to move them into different work spaces.

The exact scenario you're describing is a great use case for tiling WMs. I couldn't imagine doing it with windows that occlude each other. In fact, I've been using tiling WMs for over a decade now, and I find my colleagues' use of stacked windows gives me anxiety. You never know where anything is, and they have to constantly alt-tab to find it, or hunt for it with their mouse.

The key to effective use of tiling window management is the use of virtual desktops. The two go hand in hand. That's why Windows and Mac OS don't have it. Windows, btw, did re-introduce a "tiling mode" (or something like it) in their recent OSes. The use case to have two windows next to each other without fiddling with your mouse is just so prominent.

I rarely have more than 2-3 windows per desktop. The browser usually dominates its space completely, and is full-screen, almost always.

EDIT: I know Mac OS has "virtual desktops" now, but in the grand scheme of things, it's a relatively recent addition, and I doubt that many people use it. It's probably more of a power-user feature. But then again, so is tiling window management.

> You never know where anything is, and they have to constantly alt-tab to find it, or hunt for it with their mouse.

Ctrl + UP or "swipe up with three fingers" gesture on Apple Magic Trackpad will reveal all the active open windows and show a thumbnail of all the active workspaces (virtual desktop). It's much, much faster than alt / cmd + tab.

> The key to effective use of tiling window management is the use of virtual desktops. The two go hand in hand. That's why Windows and Mac OS don't have it.

MacOS certainly has virtual desktops and calls it "Spaces" ( https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/work-in-multiple-sp... ).

(But yeah, you are right in that some users may not be using it - I don't use it at all. I prefer to use tabbed windows, only have a single monitor and when the number of open applications or windows overwhelms me, I just close many of them.)

> in the grand scheme of things, [Spaces] is a relatively recent addition...

It's not that new. Spaces were added in 10.5 (2007).

Compare to Windows 10, which got a Spaces-like feature (called virtual desktops) in 2015.

>Even Microsoft switched from a tiling WM from Windows 2.0 on wards and has stuck to it

Yet they've been steadily adding tiling features since Win7.

Don't believe me? Grab any window in Win10 and drag to any of the corners.

Or use WIN+ARROW. Or CTRL+WIN+ARROW to switch desktop. It's quite slick.

That's true. But my original point stands - they've found that the majority of users prefer stacking windows as that's easier.

Why do you feel the need to write such a comment? Not every piece of software is for you. If it's not something you're interested in, there's no need to write up a post about how you Just Don't Get It.

If you are asking a question, do that, but there's no need to trash the idea of a tiling WM just because it doesn't suit your personal needs.

> Why do you feel the need to write such a comment?

To learn and share obviously. (In fact, thanks to some of the other's who replied to my comment and explained their views, I am considering exploring the features of virtual desktop / spaces more now to see if it suits my workflow.)

As for you looking at my comment negatively, that can't be helped on the internet - we all have different personalities and different styles of communication, and everyone of us will, at some point, earn some supporters or piss of someone with what we are saying.

It's also harder to communicate in such a medium because of the lack of non-verbal cues that otherwise would help us better understand what the other person really means.

> I say a niche tool because I've never really understood why someone would prefer a Window Manager that places a lot of constraints than one that lets you controls / customize the windows as you please and is thus "freer".

For maybe 90% of what I do, I have no need for in-depth control or customization of windows. When I work I use a browser, an email client, a couple of more or less permanent terminals and a bunch of transient terminal windows for short jobs. Sometimes I want a window to be slightly wider, I want to group some windows in a separate workspace or I want to temporarily focus on one window in full screen, but that's it. Most tiling window managers will have keyboard commands for achieving that level of control very easily while kicking every other aspect of window management out of my life.

There are cases where I think floating windows are more useful. Some software uses a lot of small windows to be able to maintain a customizable workspace for a good reason. For that, most tiling window managers will allow some windows to be floating.

> That even control freaks like Apple, who like to think only they know what's best for their consumers, doesn't use a tiling only WM in their OS is telling.

What is it telling of? I have no idea what motivated their choice of window management paradigm, but I guess it's easier, considering a large demographic with different backgrounds, to grasp floating windows intuitively. They afford flexibility for a wide range of applications with a minimal language of control gestures, but it's one-size-fits-all. I've been using computers all my life, though, and will probably continue doing it for long more, so I don't particularly need something to be intuitive from the get-go if it improves my workflow in the long term.

I prefer multiple desktops to stacking for the apps you mention, usually split between two monitors. For other things, e.g. file browser next to something else, tiling is what I want on that particular desktop anyway. Most always-on apps live on their own desktop and thus hotkey, works great. I have a script running that renames the i3 workspace to indicate what's on it for the rest.

While I kind of get where you're coming from, contrary to what you describe it's actually more control for me personally. What you call constraint is my preference that I'd otherwise have to handle manually. Sizing is more convenient than what I did before (basically manually adjusting everything to the tiled views, I prefer that both for basic layouts and keybinds or fiddling with the mouse). Plus, at least with i3, you can always bind something to enable floating mode for a particular window if you really feel like it (in practice I rarely do that anymore honestly).

I suspect a lot of the appeal is to people who prefer to keep their hands on the keyboard as much as possible. Being able to precisely position a window on the screen is possible to do without touching the mouse, but in practice doing so is very clumsy. By removing the "freedom" to precisely position windows and replacing it with a limited number of slots a window can go into, a tiling manager is more keyboard-friendly -- it's much easier to express "put this window in the upper right corner of the screen" in a few keystrokes than it is to express "put this window at these precise X and Y coordinates."

Combine that with multiple desktops, which can also be switched between with a couple of keystrokes, and you get an environment that's very easy to "drive" without taking your hands off the keyboard.

You make a good point - I am sure there are many keyboard warriors that love controlling their windows with a keyboard only. When I learnt the keyboard short-cuts for Photoshop, I certainly could use it a lot faster. I guess that's also one of the reasons why Tiling WM aren't as popular - there's a learning curve.

I don't think looking at mainstream, consumer OSes really say much of anything other than maybe W.I.M.P. paradigm has turned out to be easily teachable and scalable. Are GUIs better because more people use them instead of CLI (I'm not trying to rehash an argument--instead point out they're each better at different things)? Both Apple and Microsoft's pro apps deviate from their own OS' GUI conventions.

Like "pro" apps, every IDE I can think of has their own UI conventions, eschewing their host OS. All I see a tiling WM doing is extending that to the whole OS. Tiling WMs IMHO are great at avoiding the mouse and strapping together your own "IDE" whether that's tailing a log while looking at code next to it, or looking at a result in a browser.

Isn’t iPadOS a tiling window manager?

Definitely a preference thing, but how many windows do you actually have open?

At home and work I configure four virtual desktops: firefox, emacs, terminal, misc. I usually have spotify open or more rarely a file manager in misc.

I can then bounce around in an absolute way (don't need to remember alt-tab or cycle history) using <super>+{1,2,3,4}.

I have 50 xterms open, and about 10 emacs frames. I have 40 virtual desktops mapped to super+<key> for most of the keyboard (1-0-z-/) and I roughly map tasks to desktops by spacial memory.

I'm kind of disappointed that you haven't subdivided each xterm window with tmux panes.

Do only casuals comment on HN now?

Isn't stacking windows mainly useful when using for example drag and drop as a way to communicate between different applications? In the Linux world, one tends to use the file system more for that purpose. I never feel the need to stack windows, except when I have to send a picture over Skype :P

Shameless plug: try https://losttech.software/stack.html

The setting to always tile is entirely optional: you can move windows around with mouse/keyboard as much as you want, or snap it in.