Ask HN: Should you stay in a loveless relationship for kids?

That's a very hard spot. My deepest sympathies to your friend (and his entire family).

In my opinion, it's usually a mistake to stay in a relationship for the sake of the children. I don't think it actually helps the children in the long run, and it comes with a substantial risk of presenting a distorted example of how healthy relationships should be.

That said, it depends on what sort of relationship we're talking about. While I don't think it's wise to stay in a "fake" romantic relationship, it may be possible for the parents to have a genuine, more special-purpose relationship that would be very beneficial not only to the children, but to the parents.

That relationship would be "the parenting team", working in concert to raise and support the children, but with no illusion of it being anything more than a kind of coworker relationship. That's not always something that the parents can do, but if the relationship still has mutual respect and a level of friendship in it, it can work very well.

From your description, it sounds like they're already mostly there. All that would remain would be to make it explicit, and to stop living with each other.

Children are pretty resilient. My parents divorced when I was around 5 years old. My father moved a lot and I didn't see much of him, and at times didn't hear from him for long periods. My mother remarried when I was about 7 years old. My stepfather was a great guy and it didn't take long for us kids to get used to having him in our lives. He and my mother had two daughters over the next few years and we all got along great.

When I got to be 14 years old I moved halfway across the US to live with my father. A bit over a year later both my younger and older brothers came to live with him.

That move did cause some friction between my mother and I but by the time my brothers moved out there she was fine with that arrangement. It had to be a lot easier on her and it gave her more time to spend with my sisters, so it worked out good for them too.

For me, it worked out pretty good as well. My father owned a business and I learned a lot working with him, way more than I could have had I stayed with my mother and stepfather.

So, I'll offer that if both parents make an effort to spend time with their child, refrain from criticizing each other around or to their child, and work together raising them, the kid will be fine.

I have no regrets about how things worked out for my parents. They both remarried and found someone they did get along great with. They were all happy, and I got the best from all of them.

You state that your friend loves his kid, but the larger picture you paint is that the kid is a thing that your friend will not keep and that your friend would be better off at least financially (somehow) without them. Your description of your friend and the situation makes me feel like your friend is very self centered.

How does your friend conclude that being "single" is going to improve your their financial situation? That seems to fly directly in the face of your prior statement that both parents make "6 figure salaries" and that "income isn't an issue". If he wants a better financial situation then he should explore if there are tax advantages to being actually married. There likely are. Two adults (one with a child) are rather unlikely to see an an improved cash flow by living in two homes. Unless of course your friend hopes to just ditch his financial responsibilities...

In my opinion, Your friend needs to "man-up" and accept his responsibilities particularly with respect to being a father. Likely their partner does as well. That almost assuredly means re-prioritizing the family and particularly the child over things that had top priority before the child was born.

As a father, I know the initial sting that comes with a loss of a prior life and the changes in family dynamics following the birth of your first child. I can assure your friend that many of the aspects that make toddlers a challenge diminish from this point forward.

Your friend stands on the edge of a terrible decision, not just for their child but for themselves as well. The joy of being a parent is more than equal to the responsibilities. Your friend and their partner loved each other in the not too distant past. If they reflect on the things that brought them together in the first place (probably with counseling) and make the life changes necessary to prioritize their family then I feel like they have a chance of rebuilding that love.

I was totally with you until the second half of the last paragraph.

I’ll try to summarize the major points a bit better.

The two parents don’t feel anything for one another, but are great partners in terms of parenting. There isn’t any attraction, affection, etc. Just a joint desire to enable their child to blossom, succeed, and flourish. Not married, relationship started like any other, baby came, parents raised child.

Both 6 figure incomes from remote jobs.

Although not married, both parents live and pool their incomes together.

Both parents also decided to pool and tackle their debts together (refinance, balance transfers to joint accounts, joint auto loans etc.). Both accepted the responsibilities of that. They were both okay with it because their incomes and debts were practically identical.

Overtime lifestyle inflation became a huge problem and a burden on the relationship. Both individuals come from completely different backgrounds which translates into their different monetary habits which they clashed over...

If separated both would be free to do whatever with their $ Which both have expressed is an overall net positive since they each disagree with how the other spends.

There’s no major toxic behavior. But again also no desire to be together. The dynamic is essentially all of the restrictions that come with being in a relationship with none of the positive aspects except for the stellar team work when it comes to parenting.

The child would, upon separation, leave and reside 4 hours away. There are multiple avenues here. One is stay as a family unit but leave for a place my friend personally does not want to move to. Split and follow the child considering remote work and income allows it. Or split, co parent, and live elsewhere (which is what friend would’ve done otherwise considering their situation)?

Should they stay together FOR THE CHILD? Yes or no and why is what my friend is really wondering.

What does "loveless" mean? Do they dislike or hate each other, or just not feel that spark/whatever anymore? And is mutual, or is it just your friend? Is there an incident that led to this?

As an older person, it'd be tempting to just live as friends and/or give it a while to see if it picks up again. Experience suggests, though, that there's more under all of this and that things will fall apart.

I wish them luck.

Try to rekindle the relationship. What they have is better than what they will find.

Go on a one-month vacation to someplace rustic and desolate. Talk a lot.

they might read The Course of Love by alain de botton