Perhaps tech workers should unionize and demand better healthcare, 40 hour work weeks, etc.
Furthermore the fact that programming can be fun enough for lone wolf hackers to do their open source projects for free means that unionization efforts would probably lead to a greater industry reliance on actual free work, not less.
The problem with GP's statement isn't "unionization". It's "tech workers". What does that even mean? It's such a general term that can be applied to vast swathes of the workforce. Is someone who maintains complex VB scripted excel sheets a tech worker, for instance? Or is that label only reserved for those who work at a FAANG company?
Many who have a so-called "technical" or "digital" role do so in industries whose main primary focus isn't producing digital software or services. Banks, Automotive, Health, Education, Food, Retail, Mining, Construction, Transport, Tourism,... And many of those industries do have long traditions of unionization and defending laborer rights.
Many of those workers are already organized and do have many provisions for a sane workplace culture provided by their employers. Because the latter already went through the pain of worker conflicts.
The trouble with the "Valley" is that it originates in that wild idea of bootstrapping your own company from your garage or kitchen table, taking the same mythical roads pioneers of computing took some 40 years ago.
While many found unprecedented freedom in being able to bootstrap or work for a fledgling company, doing so was - and still is - a very risky proposition. You will work outrageous amounts of time without knowing if you ever will be able to cash out. You have to be okay with that.
Today's FAANG companies originate from that narrative, and VC capital backed start up culture heavily projects that narrative. But Silicon Valley isn't a small community of computing enthousiast anymore. The Wild West doesn't exist anymore. It's a particular industry in it's own right and most sizable companies compare to well-established corporations who are just like any other traditional corporation.
Yet, somehow, everyone still perceives these companies as pioneers and give them a free pass as to the ethical choices they make in how they treat the users of their products, and the workers who make those products.
Breaking off from this tangent about Valley corporatism, it should be clear that the plight of workers in that setting isn't really comparable to all workers in other industries and fields that may provide better working conditions.
Just recently, someone argued to me that working on "boring" technology is what gives you the most job stability (which isn't the same as security!). Like, doing Perl or Cobol for social security institutions, banks, transport, etc. With age, I've come to find that this person is likely right.
In this economy, if your work environment sucks, the door is open and there are greener pastures.
The biggest problem is really that so much of what we do is boring, and, in the greater scheme of things, pointless.
Not exactly true outside certain areas, mostly in the US. In The Netherlands for example > 80k euros is considered pretty good pay.
> so much of what we do is boring, and, in the greater scheme of things, pointless
This I would say is actually quite a big problem, one that can lead to burnout in the longer run.
More than twice the average income? I don't know whether that qualifies as "shitload", but it's not that far away, no?
I'm not really complaining, mind you. It's nice to live in a country where basically nobody sleeps on the street, medical assistance is available (if you really need it) and basically free, the infrastructure is great etc.
That said, it's possible to be in the top few % in a major metropolis anywhere in the world and still feel 'average' simply because the cost of living is so great and you're spending >50% of your income on housing.
[0] https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/visualisaties/income-distribution
Note however that the chart shows disposable income, which I'm pretty sure is the one after tax. 80k gross is more like 48k after tax.
- you can easily find a job that devalues you in the exact same dehumanizing way your current job does.
On the other hand the health insurance doesn't make any difference in these countries since it's the same for all citizens so I am not sure how is that relevant.
So first off this has traditionally been a US centric site, so you'll have to excuse that most things take a US centric view and we do make a lot of money in the US software industry.
Second I have never once worked a job like that and every time I see people talk about this like its the industry norm I kind of become incredulous to the fact. The US market is so good you can turn down jobs like that.
I can't help but thinking the overtime you take on is more about you and not pushing back but again maybe this is different outside of the US. Here in the US at least, what are they going to do fire you? Cool, if they do your salary probably just increased by 10-20k USD as you find a new job in < 4 weeks.
I get that what you're saying is your reality but it certainly hasn't been mine and if you push back on things more you'll maybe find it doesn't have to be yours either. It's our market and we have high leverage because how desperate jobs are for Devs of all flavors.
And then there is a form to select my country. So even if HN is a US centric site, which I dispute actually, still the website in this post has nothing to do with the US.
And I get that it's different in the US, but I doubt that people don't care if they get fired. I very much doubt that.
And second I certainly didn't say they don't care, what I am implying though is they shouldn't care as much, the consequences right now are minimal and potentially largely beneficial.
I don't know. A quick search shows me accountants to start with 25-35k, while software developers start at 42k and peak significantly higher. Sure, depends on your definition of slightly, I guess. If you're in Berlin, Frankfurt, Munich or Hamburg and you're not getting 50k, call a head hunter. And a lot of unpaid overtime? That's rare even for startups because labor law is pretty strict over here, so lots of overtime is a liability for the company, and, since it's pretty easy to find a new job if you're anywhere near a metropolitan area, companies do take care to not drive their employees away.
If you can't afford to buy a house on a single-income where you live you aren't making a shitload of money.
Tech is a small club. There is a blacklist. There are backchannel lines of communication. Piss off the wrong people and it will follow you for years.
What's the point of any of that if you're miserable the whole time? Burning through the prime years of your life, no less.
There are valid answers to that question, but I think a lot of people haven't even asked it. In the words of a particularly edgy Radiohead song: "A pig, in a cage, on antibiotics."
Stop minimizing mental health issues. It's profoundly harmful!
Thousands of people in the world jumped off some bridge after being told "you have a good life, take it easy" one time too much.
> We're in the goddamn catbird seat.
A lot of developers have very undeserved jobs, yes.
> We make a shitload of money
Not everybody has the sheer privilege of being born in the right country. In most lands developers are quite underpaid.
> we punch keyboards in a heated office at a desk. We're not mining coal
If you are talking about modern coal mining - it's done by pressing buttons while sitting in a heated steel cabin.
If you are talking about mining with a shovel - that's some dishonest cherry-picking.
On top of that, burnout and suicide rate strongly correlates with feelings of doing a pointless job.
When cooking or building a house or mining coal people can be get a surprisingly amount of satisfaction from their output.