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Comment by riyadparvez | Hacker News Reader

As someone who is not from North America, this positive/good vibe culture really baffles me. You are a human being. Negative emotions are part of life. World is full of pain and sufferings. You are supposed to feel empathy for other people and feel bad for their misfortune even if you have the good luck of not going through suffering. I just don't understand this obsession of feeling good all the time. I don't know how people can just brag about themselves with things like "good vibes only". If you have never felt sadness, pain, shame, or embarrassment, is it something to brag about?

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A saying I learned from a Russian coworker: "The only people who smile all the time are idiots and Americans."

As an American, I find that quite amusing. I'd say it brings a smile to my face, but there's likely one there already.

Russians certainly have a funny and direct way to answer questions!

My grandma (came to the US from the USSR during WW2) would always answer a little too honestly when we asked "how are you doing?" Sometimes she would say "Still walking" and sometimes she would talk about how the neighborhood is going downhill. I would laugh and say "you know in America we just say 'good'!"

> came to the US from the USSR during WW2

Must be some interesting story there...

The flip side is when Lisa Simpson asks a Russian man for directions to the bus and he politely answers her but she mistakes his gruff Slavic manner for hostility.

There are two Russian men playing chess. After frightening Lisa away ("My pleasure! It's six blocks that way!"), one checkmates the other, to which the response is upending the chessboard accompanied by the subtitle "Good game! How about another?".

The joke isn't really Lisa mistaking a "gruff Slavic manner" for hostility, it's more the Slavic manner being actually hostile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyVMiE7jAJo

As an American, I appreciate that they distinguish Americans as a population distinct from idiots.

I moved from Germany to the US a long time ago and at first I was confused by what you call "good vibe culture". I've come to appreciate it, though. When I visit Germany now I notice that people make less of an effort to keep surface interactions more polite and often make a point of spreading their bad mood around.

Beyond the surface interactions there's not much difference, though. Interactions with people you know better, be it friends, family or coworkers, are pretty similar.

But how real are the "good vibes"? The impression I get is a lot of the time its all just a facade.

When taken to the extreme you end up with a Potemkin village where everyone grins and nods and goes about their day never expressing anything honest.

I much prefer a society where people are open and there is some accountability than a group of smiling yes men which is the type of thing these corporate culture workshops seek to indoctrinate.

It comes from two religious movements in the U.S. that became popular starting in the 50's and has been gaining momentum ever since: Prosperity Gospel and New Age Spirituality.

They both focus on you projecting "good vibes" and only allowing others who also project good vibes around you. If you can do this, then (Nature/God/the Universe) will reward you.

It's interesting you brought up religion, as to me it has always seemed that Christianity strongly embraces bad vibes.

Like all the pictures of Jesus being crucified and wearing crowns of thorns, and the talk of how we are all sinners and bad people. And the talk of writhing in lakes of fire.

Prosperity Gospel is very different from traditional Christianity. It is much closer to New Age Spirituality than most Christian denominations.

Sounds like someone has a case of the Mondays! /s

But seriously, as an American, I fully agree. Having to pretend to be a happy camper at work when one is going through a (not culturally approved) personal tragedy sucks big time.

For an example for a culture much to the contrary, in Austria, there's a tradional way of being "grantig" (grumpy, ill-tempered). According to at least one of the etymologies, this was based on an ill-informed observation of supposedly typical behavior of Spanish nobles, i.e. Grandes -> like a Grande -> grant-ig. To this day it's some of a poor man's way of professing accomplishment, not to the smallest of irritations in the service industry, especially with guests from abroad.* However, from the inside, it's just a reminder that respect is a mutual affair, to be payed by either side. (From this perspective, being able to show yourself "grantig" translates to a minimum reserve of freedom and empowerment.)

*) The traditional, class struggle related response, however, is, "They are paid too much."

(Obviously, this is to be read with a grain of salt.)

Thanks for sharing this. I have indeed found the customer service to be pretty bad in Austria when compared to the rest of Europe. Every time I would phone a company to complain about a problem with their service/product I would be treated as I I was to blame. Didn't know this was traditional.

In Finland being little grumpy is a sign that you are currently doing something important.

"Leave me alone. I know what I'm doing." :)

>World is full of pain and sufferings

This is exactly why you need to put an inordinate focus on the bright side.

>You are supposed to feel empathy for other people and feel bad for their misfortune even if you have the good luck of not going through suffering

Yeah if you live in a tribe of like 30 people maybe. You can't scale that sort of empathy to collectives the size of "all coworkers at $bigco". That's way too much empathising. Way too many people who are going to be down. Particularly in an office. You can't combine "unmasked feelings" and "dreaded place we have to be compensated to go to".

>I just don't understand this obsession of feeling good all the time. If you have never felt sadness, pain, shame, or embarrassment, is it something to brag about?

It's not about feeling good all the time. It's about not throwing your bad feelings at people who also feel bad while 50 other bad feeling people do the same.

You'd love the work of Barbara Ehrenreich, who has erudite, anthropological, book-length rants about this sort of thing (e.g. https://www.amazon.com/Bright-sided-Relentless-Promotion-Pos...)

Speaking of Barbara Ehrenreich, her book Nickel and Dimed is a fascinating study on poverty in America. https://www.amazon.com/Nickel-Dimed-Not-Getting-America/dp/0...

If you're going to read the story of someone determined to prove you can't get ahead in the US you should also read that of someone determined to show you can.

Scratch Beginnings

http://www.amazon.com/Scratch-Beginnings-Search-American-Dre...

> I am going to start almost literally from scratch with one 8′ by 10′ tarp, a sleeping bag, an empty gym bag, $25, and the clothes on my back. Via train, I will be dropped at a random place somewhere in the southeastern United States that is not in my home state of North Carolina. I have 365 days to become free of the realities of homelessness and become a “regular” member of society. After one year, for my project to be considered successful, I have to possess an operable automobile, live in a furnished apartment…, have $2500 in cash, and, most importantly, I have to be in a position in which I can continue to improve my circumstances by either going to school or starting my own business.

I'm not American, nor do I live in America, but I feel compelled to post because this aspect of American culture is both absolutely infuriating, AND its one that I actually have to engage with (though i try to avoid it as much as possible) because it's commonly exported with corporate training/culture, and a huge part of corporate culture is either fundamentally American or heavily influenced by American culture.

It's a nightmare, and I have barely even touched on what it does for the negative reputation of Americans...(reinforces a reputation as superficial, idiots, two-faced, liars, etc). Other Americans, please find a way to stop this madness!

You might enjoy this little article (and associated HN discussion) about toxic positivity that was posted here last year.

https://www.glamourmagazine.co.uk/article/toxic-positivity

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19692895

You are right, it is a serious problem.

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