People of Las Vegas | Hacker News Reader

People of Las Vegas

believermag.com

109 pointsVigier78 comments

I've lived all over the U.S., the last seven years in Las Vegas. The Believer piece was the most accurate portrayal of the city I've ever come across.

Las Vegas is, in many ways, the most American city.

* Top to bottom, the city hustles for your attention and your commerce. Everyone implicitly understands that if the customer doesn't like the product or service, there are a million other options. It's a welcome change compared to other we're-too-cool-for-you downtowns.

* It remains one of the only metro areas (perhaps the only one) in America where someone with a high school diploma can roll into town, get a job and, in fairly short order, make a middle-class life for him/herself.

* We're a big destination for immigrants of all types who come here looking for work -- busboys become valets become small-shop owners become big-shop owners.

* We're not sentimental when something doesn't work anymore. You see it on the Strip when hotels are imploded, sure, but you also see it all around town. We don't have a lot of half-dead, struggling businesses because, if it's not working, people try something new.

Having said all that? The summers are miserable.

Last time I was there I thought LV is like growing up in Germany I always thought the US was: pragmatic, over the top and innovative. Most of the US feels very stale and over the hill to me but it seems in Las Vegas people are still moving.

On the other hand: it’s pretty nuts to build such a city in the middle of the desert.

It's the middle of the desert but geographically close to one of America's largest rivers, which supplies the overwhelming majority of our water. Whether or not that's sustainable is a matter of debate, but you don't have to be a hydrologist to look out over Lake Mead while flying in and see the water is historically low.

Our electricity situation is more distributed. Yes, the Hoover Dam is nearby, but we draw power from thousands of sources, most out of state. The newest/densest development in the last several years -- City Center on the Strip -- has its own off-the-grid power system.

Southern Nevada actually gets most of its electricity from power plants within the state: mainly from natural gas power plants owned by NV Energy adjacent to Vegas. Here's a recent Power Content Label for Southern Nevada [1]. Not much of the electricity consumed in Southern Nevada is purchased from out-of-state. Most of the natgas used in Southern Nevada's power generation comes from western Wyoming.

[1] https://www.nvenergy.com/publish/content/dam/nvenergy/bill_i...

LV is an entertainment economy. It necessarily presents itself differently than other locales.

Many cities are in the middle of the desert: Dubai, Cairo, Doha, etc... Bonus point: Land is cheap. No trees to care about.

Except for all of those trees (and grass!) we plant to help us forget we live in a desert.

What do all of those cities have in common? They will quickly become post-apocalyptic ghost towns as soon as the oil runs out.

Electricity is pretty cheap I understand, compared to the rest of the US. Due to hydro and solar?

So, perfect for a place that has lots of air-con and lights.

On my visit there we were amazed that we could swim in near freezing air temp in the huge heated outside pool (more than double the size of an olympic.)

Yes it's an extravagance, but at the same time where else might you get that experience except at natural hot springs locations?

It's not about electricity. Las Vegas is literally the worst place to build a large city with extravagant outdoor swimming pools, fountains, etc because those things require water and those things lose water at a ridiculous rate in the middle of a desert. Water is also not generally abundant in a desert (by virtue of it being a, uh, desert)

Deserts are dry on average, but some parts are quite wet :-)

FWIW, Las Vegas water rates are lower than the average US city.

That could be because the cost is subsidised by gambling and perhaps it doesn't includes the cost of say building Hoover Dam.

But also the infrastructure is more modern than the typical US city.

For comparison, Atlanta's water rates are MUCH higher than Las Vegas despite it having 10 times the annual rainfall.

My inlaws have lived there part-time for the past 20 years.. I would say people should just read your comment above and save themselves the "shoot-me-now" angst of the article...I wish no one had ever said it would be a good idea for every article to be 2k words or more. In any case, I would also add that anyone looking to hack a cheap physical presence in LA or SF should consider Las Vegas. It's pretty trivial to fly in to either and the cost of the airfare and reasonable if not extravagant lodging in Vegas far outweighs the costs of actually living in either CA market. If something like surfair were to materialize in Las Vegas, I think it would be a fantastic way to commute.

I think this is even more true for Phoenix

Yeah I’ve based out of PHX a few times as well as LAS and would agree. If there was a subscription air charter at either place I would think it would be gang busters but that’s just me.

Back in the late 90's when mom and pop wireless shops were common, I remember the owner of one telling me an interesting about Vegas.

At the time he was getting into the wireless industry, he was approached in the early 1980's by AT&T to be the sole wireless manager for AT&T in Vegas. This guy loved Vegas, went there three or four times a year, gambled a LOT and was considered a fairly high roller at several of the casino's he frequented (but not a whale mind you) but he was curious so he took a month off and lived in Vegas to find out how good the opportunity would be.

He talked to anybody he could find, and started doing research about the people who lived there. He said after a month he realized there only really four kinds of people who were going to be his customers:

- The aging retirement community. Most came here from other cities, live on a fixed income and live in many of the retirement communities in and around Vegas

- The middle aged drifters who come in seeking fame and fortune, end up as dealers, waitresses or hotel staff. Most come, party, go broke and then leave and go back home

- The players. Most of them are like the owner himself. They can spend three weeks here, or a month, but always go back to their native states. To them Vegas is a playground, nothing more.

- The actual population of 470,000 people (this is 1980 remember) were compromised of a mix of the above and an even smaller group of people he'd have to convince to buy his services - which in 1980 were not cheap by any means.

In the end, he turned down the offer, but the article seems to say a lot of what he found is still true today compared to what he found way back in the 1980's.

The first bullet point is the only one that really has much population. There are tons and tons of people not covered who just live normal middle and working class lives, in affordable houses, and neighborhoods that look like just about anywhere else.

Do the social costs of gambling addiction have any role in the introspective narrative of the city?

I mean, other than the large number of service jobs with upward mobility, I could say that about Dallas (today) too, or Los Angeles a generation ago.

Except the hotels part your description sounds a lot like Austin of 10yr ago. I hope the summers are as miserable as you say they are. The Texas heat wasn't enough to keep out the kind of negative change that washed away most of the stuff on your list.

Having spent the first 25 years of my life (see other comment), and having lived in Austin 1992-2003 and 2011-now, I can tell you that summer in Las Vegas is far more miserable.

And as ruined as it is by the influx, Austin is, by far, the better place to live.

I'm not sure exactly what the author's thesis is. Yes, there are people that live in the city, and they don't all hang out at Caesars Palace every weekend. This is not news. What strikes me about the Las Vegas metro area, apart from the gaming zones, is how boring it is.

Yes, there's a lot of natural beauty, and I love hiking when I'm there. But I've also been all around the metro area and honestly, there is just not a lot going on. Apart from the casinos, it's a pretty generic desert city; lots of chain restaurants and strip malls. There's not very much industry outside of tourism/hospitality.

I would never say "I could never live in Vegas" because of the casinos. I say "I could never live in Vegas" because there is almost nothing else going on.

Agreed. I lived there for around a decade. About 2 years in I would have written something like this article. Soon though I just felt surrounded by malcontents. The Anthony Bourdain episode about LV was pretty accurate. It’s a town founded and populated with people who wanted to flee where ever they were to somewhere no one would ever visit them. There’s this really abusive undercurrent that would stem from that mindset being present in the population in mass numbers.

Consider the timeframe of this piece though. The towns been booming for about as long or longer.

Hard to argue with your subjective opinion, but I would guess that objectively there is more "going on" in Las Vegas at any given time than there is in most major cities. It just happens to be very concentrated into a small part of the city. But the number of high end restaurants, concerts, special events, shows, clubs, etc. in Vegas is unusually high.

Outside of that area it is pretty bland suburban, but that area supports a lot of interesting food choices because of the number of ethnicities in the city.

Yeah, I guess I don't disagree that there's a lot going on there, but it's all in service of bringing in tourists, all sponsored by the casinos. Sure, locals are welcome to partake in any of that, but it's not "for" them in a large sense. It doesn't seem to have the same degree of cultural institutions that other similarly sized cities have.

I live on the east coast, but I have friends in Vegas, so when I visit, I avoid the Strip and touristy areas unless I want to specifically go out.

As a kid, I remember our family visiting Vegas multiple times as tourists; going back as an adult has felt very different. It was a fascinating transition to experience, not unlike when you stop flying window seats and start flying aisle seats instead.

In my teenage years, I lived in an east coast city with a boardwalk and beach, lots of hotels and condos and tourist shops. I hardly ever went to the beach -- it could get crowded, and parking and not getting your car wet and sandy would get complicated, so I often forgot that it's an option. All of that works a lot better if you're staying at the beach.

I suppose Vegas residents may feel similar about the Strip or Fremont Street during an average day, when they're trying to get stuff done. But if you're looking for ways to spend an afternoon or night out around town, there's plenty of variety, from shows to shopping, paid attractions, pedestrian spaces, museums, diverse restaurants, bars, nightclubs: much more so than metros of a comparable size: Charlotte, Sacramento, Cincinnati, Kansas City, Columbus, Cleveland. Its weakest areas arguably sports, and smaller "local" venues for bands on tour.

the high-end restaurants on/near the strip are ridiculously overpriced for the quality of food. even the dining experience at most retaurants feels cheap and fake.

you can find much better food at better prices in other cities and even off-strip in vegas. for instance, i'd generally choose louisville (kentucky) over vegas for dining experience (for affordable ethnic food of all sorts, take a road-trip to LA).

Over the last 20 years I have been involved in probably 2000+ events in the Las Vegas area.

Hiking, biking, camping, car shows, rodeos, basketball games, art festivals, weddings, boating, skiing, funerals, plays, races, hockey, debates, conferences, air shows, auctions, skydiving, rallys, service projects, highway cleanups, fireworks, swim meets, concerts, you name it.

If you couldn't find anything going on, it may not be about the location. That list would probably look the same for a lot of people in a lot of locations. I'm pretty confident there will be some engaging event happening within 10 miles of wherever you are in the world tonight. Just because you don't participate doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

It's a 3 million person suburb. There is no "there" there.

In my personal experience, Las Vegas also happens to be one of the nerdiest cities in America. The Luxor hotel and casino, one of the biggest and oldest on the strip, is also one of the first major establishments to host e-sports events.

I’m also consistently impressed with how many comic book shops, card shops, retro video game shops and video game bars there are. Even for Japanese rhythm arcade games, a relatively obscure hobby that I enjoy, one of the best communities in the US was located in Las Vegas at a place called Gemini Arcade Palace. It has since closed down, but a couple others have already taken its place, and the community is stronger than ever.

I feel like this might be related to the “refreshing lack of class consciousness” the author mentioned in the article. Nobody faults anyone for being a nerd (or drag queen, or crackhead, etc.) in Las Vegas.

Thats because they're realizing that the boomer population is aging out of las vegas. Meanwhile the millenials are turning into prime spending age, and they're going wherevcer they want to go. They've been trying to get millenials in for at least the last 10 years with big name electronic artists and now also e-sports. For the most part it seems to be working.

That said, I do tend to agree with you that overall that there's a bigger nerd market there per capita than most cities.

Add to the list, the Pinball Hall of Fame.

Seconding the underappreciated hiking and wilderness access that Vegas provides. This excellent site is a huge portal to all natural areas, trails, etc. in the area: www.birdandhike.com

It's really the redeeming feature of Las Vegas events for me. In addition to the places that are within an hour or so, you're only about 3 hours from both Zion and Death Valley National Parks and only something like 4 1/2 to the Grand Canyon.

Every time that I fly now into Vegas for business or competitions, it's a matter of routine for me to drive up to Charleston peak, and the Red Rock area - it's only an hour away. It's all too easy to snub one's nose at the strip for everything that it is... I can simply say it has almost no draw for me. I invariably rent a car and head out the desert.

I strongly second Bird and Hike! Such a great resource. I've emailed the creator (Jim) and he was super responsive; he encouraged suggestions or corrections too.

To be fair, I'll ask pretty much anyone "You still living in X" and follow that up by "And how is that going?"

It's not that something that I would say because I can't believe anyone would choose live in Vegas, it's just how I talk.

When I visited Las Vegas it occurred to me that it's a town like any other, just has a big tourist section. At least, it occurred to me when I saw that the urban lights reached the horizon when I was on the High Roller.

For several years, I went to the National Association of Broadcasters (NAB) trade show in Las Vegas. It was usually in April, occasionally in March. One year all the palm trees looked dead. There had been a hard freeze, and the palm fronds (leaves) had all died. The trees weren't dead, but they looked dead...

... except at the Mirage, which spray-painted the fronds green.

That's how absolutely phony the tourist parts of Las Vegas are.

It literally says "Mirage" on the sign - would you expect anything less?

If by "phony" you mean "smart" then I agree.

How dare a business try and keep their decorations looking nice! The absolute phonies!

I recommend going to Vegas and not doing any of the "normal" stuff. There is great camping 25 minutes from the strip. You can park on the strip for free and go to the hotel pools. Tons of a beautiful hiking and climbing.

I recommend the National Atomic Testing Museum, which isn't as random as it seems to be located in Vegas. Vegas is near where the above-ground nuclear tests used to be held, and as various pictures in the museum attest, people could see the mushroom clouds from Vegas hotels.

The craters from those above ground tests can be seen really clearly on a sattelite map view. It's startling to see how many there are!

https://goo.gl/maps/8J1avkiPsKewXLie8

There's a fun book called We Swam the Grand Canyon. Near the beginning of the book, the author writes about how they were sleeping in a tent the night before they started out and then were awaked by the light, sound, and ground motion of an atomic explosion.

The Pinball Hall of Fame Museum is to me, a bit of a pinball nut, one of the greatest places in the entire world. Every trip I'm nudged into is made worthwhile by a visit.

Have you seen that they are getting a new building on the south end of the strip?

Galloping Ghost outside Chicago and Pinball PA outside Pittsburgh are also great places to check out if you like pinball.

Thank you so much! I’m in between both and you’ve given me a reason to say yes to a random road trip

If you live in or visit the SF Bay Area, Alameda has a very nice offering: https://www.pacificpinball.org/

I haven’t been there in a few years and totally forgot about it, thanks!

Parking at the hotels on the strip is no longer free :-(

But yes, there’s plenty of stuff to do in Vegas beyond the obvious. My favorite: Red Rock Canyon just west of Vegas is beautiful for hiking!

Parking is still free at Planet Hollywood for now.

But yeah, the surroundings of Las Vegas are great for nature lovers: Red Rock, Valley of Fire, and Mount Charleston are all within an hour drive, and there are a good number of national parks within day tripping distance.

I didn't crazy care for my time in Las Vegas, but I loved Valley of Fire park. It was incredible seeing the martian landscape and petroglyphs of ancient peoples.

I drilled the well at the visitor’s center.

Woah. When did they start charging for parking at the casinos on the strip?

I lived in Vegas from 2009-2012, and I used to always park at the Bellagio whenever I took tourist friends to the strip. My mom used to always tell me "Yeah, parking is free because the casinos pay for it!" Sad times now that that's no longer the case :(

At least the casinos' tax revenue still makes up for a lack of a state income tax...right?

> When did they start charging for parking at the casinos on the strip?

Years ago, sadly. And it's not just that it's no longer free, it's actually creating more traffic. The whole Vegas experience is non-trivially worse for it.

The Wynn/Encore apparently brought back free parking last year.

The parking charges are a pain. Previously I would just pick up a car at the airport if I were using it to go somewhere like Death Valley after a four-day conference or so. Now it makes more sense to either rent a car at one of the hotels or just go back to the rental car center at the airport.

Treasure Island has free parking as well as some others.

Recently. They need to pay for the new stadium they are are massively leveraged for.

Ah I forgot about this. The Las Vegas Oakland Raiders' stadium...

some (most?) of the casinos have free parking for nevada residents

Not anymore...

I was just there and parking was free at the palazzo.

Dang. I was just there last year, and it was so nice.

I was on a hiking trail over by Lake Mead and there are big gates saying something like "Closed June-October" / YOU WILL DIE :)

Thankfully we were there in march.

that sign is legit. if the ambient temperature is 117, the sunshine bouncing around in those canyons can get surface temps up to 130. add visitors that head out on desert hikes without any water... and it's trouble.

> ...go to the hotel pools.

I'm not familiar, are the hotel pools free/public? Or are you just implying you walk in like you belong, and they don't check if you're a guest at the hotel?

Most of them make you flash your room key, but they don't really check to see if you're a current guest.

Edit: A few of the pools allow swim-up gaming. I believe they are legally required to allow you into their pool if you say you want to play blackjack there, since they can't offer private gaming

Edit 2: Some of the casinos have "Pool Parties" or "Day Clubs" or whatever, usually loud, booze-soaked affairs with big-name DJ's, which you do not have to be a hotel guest for, but you do need to buy tickets.

When I went in, they just checked for alcohol in your bags. They didn't ask for any proof of being a guest.

Which hotel? Most of the hotels require a room key to access the pools.

the larger resorts do have public pools because they sell a lot of alcohol there

There are plenty of places that have beautiful hiking and climbing. If I'm in Vegas I'm there to gamble, hit the buffet, and go to a show.

Red Rock's campground is not "great." It's a patch of dirt with pit toilets, little scenery, and is cold and windy. At $20 night, you can find Airbnb rooms that cost the same.

the quality of the campground is a filter to keep out anyone who would actually stay in an airbnb

I was born and raised in Vegas, left when I was 25 for Dallas. Never went back except to visit family.

Dad was born there in 1936, and passed away there in late 2018. His father moved there to work on the dam during the Depression. Met my grandmother on Fremont St, which was then the only paved street in town. (4 blocks long.)

I have deep roots in Vegas, I know it really well, and I really dislike it.

Overall a good well written article. I would have like to see some mention of the outdoor activities there, red rocks, Mt. Charleston etc. Also how the residents feel about the looming threat of water shortages(being its a city growing rapidly in the desert), How the city did after the 2008 housing crisis, (I assume pretty well?). Also Tony Hsieh's DTP(downtown project) and what residents think of it and its shortcomings.

2008 crippled it. It didn’t recover from it for years after the rest of the US did. Lots of homeless people. Many more working multiple crap jobs to get by.

Edit-btw if you work in IT never ever work for a casino. Every casino I’ve heard of treats IT as a cost center. Even the database admins and programmers. You will be treated like a waste of time and money.

The whole magazine is great. I have a subscription and love the long form articles and stories

I highly recommend The Believer magazine and encourage you to subscribe to it as I do.

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