DHS Suspends Global Entry, Trusted Traveler Programs for New York Residents | Hacker News Reader

DHS Suspends Global Entry, Trusted Traveler Programs for New York Residents

scribd.com

91 pointsdonohoe55 comments

Short summary -- because NY DMV is now required by state legislation to block DHS/ICE from accessing certain driver's license / ID records, the Global Entry / Trusted Traveler programs are being denied to new enrollments or renewals by NY residents based on lacking the withheld information. Also a blocking of used vehicle sales out of the US. Not familiar enough with the DHS/ICE procedures to know whether this is being done "by the book" or as a sort of discretionary retaliation for withholding personal data from being shared.

USCIS (or US Citizenship and Immigrations Services), and TSA are under the DHS, so I would imagine that it is important that they get that data.

OTOH, I do understand the concern that ICE could get the info under the pretense of being something for DHS though.

This Explaination should be at the top for the most complete version of events... however it is missing one critical detail that will connect the dots as to why new and renewal applications from my are denied: Cuomo just signed a law granting undocumented persons access to a drivers license. Add the complication that it will also not communicate with Ice.. I’m not commenting on this as right / wrong... just trying to bring clarity to why there is a dispute between ny and dhs.

Also fwiw, real Id info sharing does not end with the “drivers license info” it requires states to share a ton of info that has nothing to do at all with your driving record.

But the Global Entry process doesn't depend on asking the state DMV if you're a legal resident... they ask separately for those documents, e.g., a passport.

I realize this is probably political grandstanding, but if they actually wanted to solve this it seems like an appropriate solution would be to allow individuals to release their DMV information to DHS at the time they apply for GlobalEntry or sell a car. As a fan of privacy, I kind of like the idea of it not being shared automatically.

> it seems like an appropriate solution would be to allow individuals to release their DMV information to DHS at the time they apply

What exactly does the DHS need from the DMV for implementing TPP that they don't need for issuing enhanced drivers licenses that are REAL ID compliant? The whole pretext doesn't even make sense.

If NY law was/is blocking DHS from accessing the databases Real ID creates that feds are supposed to have access to, that should be grounds to stop any future TTP/GE patrons and should as well bar any current users of those services.

That being said, i think it's a great thing and i totally disagree with states mandating facial ID databases that the feds have access to. The database they should possibly get access to is for passports imo.

> What exactly does the DHS need from the DMV for implementing TPP that they don't need for issuing enhanced drivers licenses that are REAL ID compliant?

DHS doesn't issue REAL ID compliant driver's licenses. States do. The States have to comply with certain minimum standards for issuance, but that does not require States to vet each individual applicant with DHS.

New York State doesn’t do REAL ID unless you want a combined license/passport document for travel to Canada.

They will have to. They probably have a temporary exemption until october, after that any resident that wants to fly will need a realid.

Right. In New York, unlike most states, REAL ID is both optional, and not offered unless you go out of your way to get it.

You can still get a "normal" driver's license without any rigmarole. And that's fine with me. I have no reason to convert to a "REAL ID"

(I already have to carry a passport for international travel, why do I need a "special" driver's license to satisfy the feds?)

I’m not sure if I’m misunderstanding, but you will need a Real ID to board domestic flights as well.

You can use a passport just fine to get onto a domestic flight too.

Passport is fine. Some people can also use global entry card as a realid.

> why do I need a "special" driver's license to satisfy the feds?

Ultimately, because they say so. I'm genuinely curious: are you going to fly domestically with a passport after September? I'm not saying the government should have done REAL ID, but given that they seem intent on it I'm wondering what your plan is. For me, the reason to convert to a REAL ID is so that I can get on planes in the US. I had the option to go with a regular license, but that would have been inconvenient since I would have needed other ID to get on a plane, even for a domestic flight. Again, I'm not defending the government, just really curious what your plan is. Is it a protest?

If you fly often, consider getting global entry if you are eligible. The card they give is a realid compliant federal id and can be used to board a plane.

I've had that card rejected, unlike the passport card.

I've been flying with a passport my entire adult life. In fact, I carry the passport with me everywhere and use it for other identification needs as well (e.g. buying beer, getting my tickets from will call, etc). I appreciate that the passport lists only my name, birth date, and place of birth whereas my driver's license includes my address, gender, height, weight, and eye color. Places that have technology to scan driver's licenses are almost never able to scan my passport, making for that many fewer databases my presence is indelibly recorded in. Ever since my state started using facial recognition technology on their IDs I've asked to have my driver's license made without a photo, so I can't even use it as an ID card if I wanted to.

Nowadays you can get a "passport card" which has the exact same form factor as a drivers license and can be used the same way as an "enhanced real id" for domestic flights or travel to/from Canada and Mexico.

Renew your U.S. Passport and tick the extra box to get the land border passport card too.

It's a piece of plastic same size as a DL, a federal ID, and works for air travel. Usable for ID everywhere a state DL is as well as everywhere a federal ID is required.

No, they are actively pushing it for new licenses and renewals.

> REAL ID is both optional,

While this is true,

> and not offered unless you go out of your way to get it.

this is not.

I live in NYS and just renewed my license. The REAL ID requirements were very prominent, and it wasn't immediately obvious if it was possible to renew my license without making it REAL ID.

They also offered a step above that, which I think was just called "Enhanced," which would allow me to leave my passport at home if I were going to Canada, but I travel to Canada less than I travel to Europe (and neither one frequently), so I didn't see the point in paying extra $$ for that.

No. They do. I have one.

A REAL ID is simply a verifiable ID. The trusted traveler programs verify your ID, but also do a deep background check to determine if you are trustworthy to transit the border without inspection. I expect they may be looking up people’s driving records to look for DUI’s, hit-and-runs, etc.

Access to driving records is not required for things such as DUI's and hit-and-runs. These are criminal offenses and as such are available through the same record searches used to determine if you have been convicted of grand larceny, murder, etc.

It's definitely political grandstanding. "Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf exclusively told Fox News' "Tucker Carlson Tonight" Wednesday that DHS was immediately suspending Global Entry and other Trusted Traveler Programs..." - Fox News.

If it was being done for a real reason, it would appear as a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking in the Federal Register. It's not even on the DHS global entry site.

The real story here is that this is a punishment for NYS issuing driver's licenses to illegal immigrants. The Trump administration is angry that undocumented persons might have driver's licenses, and yet, that info might not be passed to ICE for no-knock raids and other "fun."

The state has important interests at stake: driver's exams, insurance, eye tests, etc. The law was passed for very basic nuts-and-bolts purposes, not to defend some starry-eyed vision of open borders.

It is better for NYS and the residents of NYS if illegal immigrants participate in driver licensing the same way as people with other federal statuses. Licensing illegal and undocumented immigrants upholds public order and keeps the roads safer.

The Trump administration now wishes to mine NY DMV records in order to make ICE actions easier, and the state declines to assist them.

This is the result of thwarting Trump's pets in the executive branch: cheap and stupid revenge.

I have no love for the Trump administration or its immigration policy, but the Real ID Act was passed in 2005 and the TSA announced compliance deadlines in 2013.

I remember real ID being called controversial in 2005. I wonder if that might have something to do with the fact that it took them ~15 years before somebody said "yes, we're really doing it this year".

What turned the tide on states' acceptance of RealID?

Most likely, the Federal government sticking to its deadline on barring acceptance of non-REAL licenses for air travel ...

REAL ID is the exact kind of thing Americans used to mock in the Soviet Union.

“Papers, please”

This isn’t a REAL ID matter. REAL ID is orthogonal.

NYS is refusing access to their “normal” non-REAL ID databases, and it bothers someone in the executive branch.

Notably, for Global Entry, you already need a passport - which supersedes the ID value of your state DL in every imaginable way

No NYS applicant is asking the federal government to rely on a drivers license. The government has just chosen to tie other things to the drivers license to further their own private tantrums

Increasing privacy for residents, and reducing the ability to buy into the comfortable side of totalitarianism. This is a double win!

It probably won't stay this way, but we can dream.

The phrasing "DHS's efforts to keep our Nation secure" made me smirk. "Nation" capitalized, as if it's a deity. The phrase itself written to make DHS sound like the heroes...

Why not just replace it with "Fatherland", or better, "Vaterland"?

Homeland isn’t scary enough? /s

Fun fact: The GPO actually recommends capitalizing "Nation" when used to describe the United States in any and all government writing.

And the same coming for California in 3..2..1...

Wait did California do the same thing???

Not that I'm aware of.

If NYC doesn't like the Federal Government enforcing the immigration laws, maybe they should lobby to change the laws instead of trying to prevent enforcement?

If you don't like what NYC is doing maybe you should lobby them? I'm sure they'd listen to you just as much as the current federal government would listen to NYC.

I don't have a horse in this race. And I don't like the current immigration laws, I'd rather have legally open borders.

But it doesn't mean existing laws shouldn't be enforced IMO.

State governments have no duty to enforce Federal laws.

But they do have a legal obligation, in certain cases, as a side effect of taking Fed funding. Not in agreement with it, just worth noting.

So you’re going to go to the police now with the information you have on your friends’/coworkers’ drug habits, right? After all, laws should be enforced, and everyone should proactively give any support they might be able to give to the police.

That’s not what he’s saying at all.

Sorry, but it kind of is. New York has decided not to proactively provide some information to a law enforcement agency. avocado4 is claiming that this is "trying to prevent enforcement". Obviously that is nonsense.

The state has pressing police interests in maintaining public order. Licensing illegal immigrants significantly reduces the number of unlicensed and uninsured rivers on the road.

Helping ICE with extremely selective, often violent, enforcement does not serve those interests. It will not serve the ends of New York State. If those databases are turned over to ICE, folks will refuse to apply for licenses, for fear of being murdered in their beds.

Federalism is a bitch that way. You have to occasionally live with state and federal interests that do not align.

> The state has pressing police interests in maintaining public order. Licensing illegal immigrants significantly reduces the number of unlicensed and uninsured rivers on the road.

As does the federal government, in maintaining border integrity.

> Federalism is a bitch that way. You have to occasionally live with state and federal interests that do not align.

That goes both ways. Guess NY residents will just have to live without Global Entry.

They won’t, though. Sooner or later the DHS will be forced to back off, because NYS residents draw more water in Washington than Trump cronies do in Albany.

This is grandstanding and little more.

  Licensing illegal immigrants significantly reduces the number of unlicensed and uninsured rivers

You have actual data showing this?

In CA, cases of driving without valid licenses and without insurance have increased since CA started issuing licenses to those here illegally.

Got a source for this? Not doubting just interested.

NYC isn't preventing the Federal Government from enforcing federal law, it is just refusing to actively expend state resources on that purpose, which the courts have held to be a legitimate exercise of the constitutional sovereign power of states under the anti-commandeering doctrine since the more common issue to which it was relevant was the fugitive slave laws.

They could simply require explicit consent, but this is CBP and DHS want carte blanche access to all D/Ls all of the time for all people irrespective whether they're application to the GE and TTP. Essentially DHS and CBP want to pick up anyone they think is illegal and send them to concentration camps, and because NY has stated that they won't provide such information to organizations not involved in road and driver safety they've decided that they want to try to punish all New Yorkers. I can't imagine this withstanding any kind of scrutiny - legislation of DMVs have repeatedly been found to be a state right, and the constitution prohibits federal agencies from having different policies for different states (that's why the voters rights act got killed).

Reply on news.ycombinator.com