Jeffrey Epstein's mystery bank came alive after his death
nytimes.com
nytimes.com
It’s also not clear what Southern Country did with that money. Two weeks later, the year-end value of Southern Country’s assets was $499,759, according to the estate’s filings.
So ~$12.5M transferred after his death is missing an unaccounted for? That's pretty outrageous. Are there methods for tracking that money down? The article doesn't really say anything about an investigation into its whereabouts.
> a magistrate judge, Carolyn Hermon-Purcell, questioned the estate’s lawyers about the transfers to Southern Country, saying the disclosure was not satisfactory. The judge said she did not know why Southern Country would be receiving checks from the estate. “There’s no explanation for it,” she said.
> A lawyer for the estate responded that some of the payment had been made in error, but the judge was not satisfied with his response and asked him to follow up with a fuller accounting.
Which means that calling out one party is making something into a partisan issue when it isn't.
The only purpose in calling out a party is to imply something different about that party.
You got stuck on the mention of the Republicans, but GP was trying to say something about Wexner, not singling them out. If GP had said 'a political party' instead of 'the Republicans', it would have sounded more hand-wavy.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio's_12th_congressional_di...
Wexner is also widely believed to be gay. In his case, I don’t think blackmail is probable considering the power of a smart, rich, confidence artist.
I’m sure there’s no doubt that a variety of intelligence agencies and private groups targeted Epstein for information. But I’m skeptical that this all originated as anything more than ego and confidence skills.
I could have been more specific but in any case, that's not particularly relevant given the fact that taxation is significantly more favorable there compared to other principalities, territories, et. al. of the US.
One example, despite all that has come up in the this case, and the number of times Ghislaine Maxwell's name has been brought up, there is no word of her whereabouts. Unless we think she is some Jason Bourne level expert that can just make herself disappear, I can think of only three explanations -
1) The law enforcement agencies are choosing not to find her and track her down for some reason. 2) She is being kept hidden (willingly or unwillingly) by someone else who has the means and ability to do so. 3) She is already dead and her body will turn up at some point.
The thought there could be such types of 'cover ups' in the western democratic world is very scary. I was always certain this stuff only happened in the movies, now I am not as sure about that.
It doesn't change mine. The government is notorious for being corrupt and inefficient.
I hear this and it makes me horrified of the thought of government takeover of a sector.
Thalidomide, 737 max, Enron...
Meanwhile tons of public sectors run silently but smoothly and are taken for granted.
Your argument to demonize the public sector is ill considered, cliched, simple minded, and one sided.
So is the private sector. Excellence is rare. Such is life, welcome to earth.
Usually due to government intervention.
Corrupt and bloated businesses also "live until they collapse". I trust in democracy more than markets.
I don't. People vote against their best interests all the time. The SF housing market is self-inflicted from people voting against new housing, because many of them don't understand the concept of supply and demand.
Neither markets nor democracy are perfect, but at least free markets are efficient.
Markets (free and otherwise) work against people's best interests all the time as well, in which case their efficiency is not a virtue.
Or they understand supply and demand perfectly well, and figured out that if they legislatively block new development, fixed supply + growing demand = rising home prices = better investment.
Big ol' citation needed there
It seems strongly that former requires the latter. Without markets you have a totalitarian state. And black markets. Everyone everywhere wants and needs to trade, for themselves and their families.
The idea of genuine democracy is the loyal opposition. You dochange the government, regularly, without collapsing everything into anarchy.
Endemic corruption will lead to systemic collapse. This makes it worthwhile to vote the best corruption reform candidates regardless of ideology or party.
Democrats have voted Trump, Republicans support Bernie on that basis. It's not completely silly.
People do bad things and we've been trying to fix our selves for a long time now.
We need to take personal responsibility for our own actions, and be honest and transparent, ready to accept the repercussions for what we have done. I'm speaking directly to individuals involved here, but I'm also speaking for and to all of us.
It's scary to come out about how fucked up we are, but it's how to heal.
We need to stand up and openly repent when we have done wrong. We need to stop defending and hiding our own evil.
If even a fraction of what is alleged about Epstein's schemes is true then whoever has her can obtain the kind of dirt that multi-billion dollar intelligence agencies can only dream of.
As another commenters said she is probably in Israel. By virtue of connections and it having a very big stake in not pissing off the US too much she is unlikely to get the $5 wrench treatment there.
To me it feels like the "Israeli operative" scenario seems pretty legit.
Even more fun? You know who owns that yacht now? DJT.
Any reference on that?
Coming from someone who hates conspiracy
theories, I think this one isn't too far fetched.
Typically I don't believe conspiracy theories, on the simple grounds that large numbers of people can't keep secrets very well.
The Epstein thing kind of has that answer built in.
A rich guy became "untouchable" by throwing sex parties and gathering blackmail material on important people. That's pretty much the easiest thing in the world to believe. At some point it becomes a self-perpetuating thing. Nobody wants to investigate him because it's a potential career-ruiner.
And keep in mind that he didn't need direct evidence on you. You just need to attend one of his parties where bad things went down. Let's say he's got video evidence of Famous Persons A, B, and C doing something at the party that happened on a specific night. You were at the party too, but like 47 out of the 50 guests you did nothing wrong and had no idea wrongdoing was happening. Well, now you're scared too. Maybe Epstein directly threatens you. Puts you in the little black book or whatever. Or maybe not. Some underage teenager was being victimized, and you were there, and now you have a strong incentive to hope the whole thing blows over because you're terrified of being painted as an abuser even though you were just there for the free shrimp and cocktails.
To me, it seems like the kind of thing anybody with sufficient money could pull off. It's not exactly news that donating fat sums of money to various institutions gets you prestige and access to lots of influential people.
I don't have an opinion on the Mossad stuff one way or another. Seems plausible but as for a guess on the likelihood it's way over my pay grade.
I don't know anything about Mossad. But I do know that sexual blackmail was a key tool of the KGB. Along with simple greed, of course.
The Clintons are 100% involved though.
If I had to guess, Pizzagate was somehow linked to Epstein's associates. I'm a little more certain of QAnon. I think that one is the GRU (what Russia calls the KGB now).
This is incredible.
Next step is setup private offshore trust/fund with new identity being the beneficiary. money problem solved.
Ideally have all of the "new identity" paper work done well before it is needed: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/jeffrey-...
You need either the law or a credible threat of retaliation to protect large assets. The former requires identity and a trail of evidence of ownership, not to mention reliable law enforcement; the latter requires reputation, which requires identity and a trail of evidence of retaliation. And except for industrial countries with a strong rule of law (i.e. the places you're probably trying to flee), both the law and the jungle require regular payments in cash, favors, or blood, commensurate with the assets you're trying to protect, to maintain the state of things. Not only can that quickly diminish your wealth, you're creating an ever larger footprint.
Is it possible? Theoretically, just like in the movies. But it's not easy. And it's not easy to pivot from an ultra rich, jet setting, flamboyant con-man to an anonymous nobody. It's worth noting that your link proves my point--his fake identity was readily discovered with a routine search warrant and home inspection. Epstein wasn't willing to give up the comforts of his public persona and the convenience of switching between his identities. And he clearly wasn't willing to flee before he got caught, which is something of a prerequisite.
Having some money is a good start. You can buy a bar or a hostel in some far flung part of the world where nobody asks questions, and hopefully you can coast for several decades. Maybe you can hide just enough gold and currency to maintain a comfortable life without drawing attention; enough to match the flow of retirement benefits (Social Security, etc), which can often be drawn down regardless of residency and are a common source of income for older expats. Otherwise, it's just mo' money, mo' problems.
On the other hand, it's rare for authorities to care enough to hunt someone down to the ends of the earth. But I assume the context here is a motivated intelligence agency or similarly resourceful and persistent organization (e.g. DoJ no longer able to turn a blind eye). Either way, though, the easiest way to hunt someone down is to follow the money.
Sources: Movies. Education. Traveling and meeting "interesting" expats from various countries fleeing everything you'd expect (wives, taxes, poverty, etc) except prosecution for heinous crimes, if their stories are to be believed.
The simplest explanation here, if you’re trying to include outside interference, is that a patient on suicide watch was intentionally allowed conditions in which he could finish the job.
Why hang him when you can intentionally botch the surveillance and he’ll hang himself for you? Much cleaner.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/27/jeffrey-epstein-friend-ghisl...
There are enough reasons to believe that Jeffrey Epstein might have operated a honeypot for Mossad, and Ghislaine Maxwell was his handler:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21410931
That would explain why Jeffrey Epstein’s injuries look more like murder than suicide, according to a pathologist:
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article236809...
And why the surveillance footage from the night of his first suicide attempt went missing:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/12/19/surveillance-foo...
Personally, I believe that he was a kind of person who would have never killed himself. And that's not the only thing he had in common with Donald J. Trump:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-trump-rape-case_n_581a...
> The accuser says Trump raped her repeatedly at parties thrown by since-convicted pedophile Jeffrey Epstein, who was widely known to throw wild parties with young women and girls.
Needless to say, the current US policy in Middle East has given Israel almost everything it has ever asked for, and what no other Western nation has agreed with:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_recognition_of_J...
> Trump's decision to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital was rejected by a majority of world leaders. The United Nations Security Council held an emergency meeting on December 7 where 14 out of 15 members condemned Trump's decision, but the motion was vetoed by the United States.
I do apologize. It has been a long while since I even recalled seeing that in passing, and I never really thought about it at the time; but it has stuck with me as a case illustrating the criticality of trust in medicine.
They're not furthering the security of the homeland. They're furthering the homeland, expanding it into territories belonging to people who face a much worse existential threat- Israel itself.
Instead, Israel wants territory and power, so they build illegal colonies on stolen land, they brutalize Palestine and make a show of brutally repressing them,and they antagonize and threaten their neighbors in defiance of international law. There will be no peace in Israel as long as this doesn't change, but they may well flourish economically from this.
On the other hand, to believe that the US is an unwilling, blackmailed participant in all of this is absurd. The US is not Israel's dim-witted reluctant ally, it is actively spurring on Israel in all of their actions, both in order to extend its influence and defeat its enemies in the area (Iran's independence and rejection of the Cia-installed Shah will not be forgiven or forgotten), and to keep a steady demand for US armaments going in the area.
I meant that the US ruling class is very much happy with Israel's actions, because the turmoil in the region often lines their own pockets, and at least attacks a lot of their own enemies.
But how much of the enmity is simply due to the US's support of Israel? Am I the most loyal friend of a bully because his victims are my enemies, or his victims hate me because I am his most loyal friend?
So in thisccase at least, the US - Iran enmity would still be there even if Israel was completely neutral. Of course, a lot of other sources of enmity have accumulated over the years, but this is most likely the 'original' reason.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9ta...
What's even more conspicuous is that there is clearly a strong interest by the public. Even if all these "conspiracy theories" are false, you could get a LOT of viewership just going around debunking them. But it's like complete silence from the traditional corporate media.
I think almost no one, including the media, knows what really happened. There are a huge array of different forking possibilities.
I think maybe your cynicism is misplaced. The world is a far uglier place than your comment presumes. And relative to the kinds of people intelligence agencies must deal with sometimes, Epstein's crimes and alleged crimes probably wouldn't raise an eyebrow. (Which isn't a comment on whether they were blackmail worthy.)
First off, he may have had no involvement with intelligence whatsoever, or beyond being interrogated after his arrest.
If the intelligence agencies did set all of this up and told him to get real underaged girls (rather than actors pretending to be underaged) to blackmail people, or knew this was happening and allowed it to continue for so long, that'd actually be big. That's state-sponsored child sex trafficking and rape. But there are so many other possibilities in between that and "no involvement".
If someone asked you right now "you have two options: topple a government and replace them with a puppet, or run a child sex trafficking ring", and you had to pick one, which would you choose? If I had to choose, I'd definitely choose the former.
The current head of the CIA is a torturer who illegally destroyed evidence. “Shifted a little” is awfully generous.
Time to watch...let's see..."Scandal", "Snowden", Canadian TV show "Intelligence", Shooter...those are just the "fictional" accounts.
Was Dahmer an asset? No!
Was Foobar an asset? No comment.
It's not in their best interest to publicly deny any assets I don't think.
We know Epstein was a genuine pedophile. It's not impossible that his actions were his (and Ghislaine's) own. Maybe he was trying to blackmail people for his personal profit, or maybe blackmail wasn't part of it. Maybe he saw it as a way of sharing his "hobby" with people he liked and wanted to get to know more, partly to acquire clout and connections and partly because pedophilia was his passion and something he considered worth doing with others, just like some rich people invite other rich people to go golfing.
There are so many possibilities. Maybe the above is true but he was also an intelligence asset. Maybe he was an asset but the agency/agencies involved weren't aware actual underaged people were involved and dropped him after his 2008 arrest and he then just continued for his own pleasure. Maybe he really was working for one the whole time and the people responsible thought the ends justified the means. Maybe he wasn't and essentially was trying to run his own private intelligence agency, perhaps to sell information to other intelligence agencies, and companies and people who would pay a lot for that dirt.
There's no evidence of anything concrete either way. The prosecutor saying he was told to back off and that he belonged to intelligence is what really sparked all of this, but the meaning of this is still unclear. If the person who told him this wasn't lying, it definitely could mean he was an asset all along, or it could mean that intelligence agencies weren't aware of him until his arrest and realized the potential of the information he might have and promised him leniency if he informed them about every important individual involved, then stopped dealing with him after he was sentenced.
If this is true, this sort of thing isn't uncommon with mass murderers - look at Sammy the Bull. The fact that he kept doing it for a decade when he got out, the unknown sources of his money, and other weird factors certainly could be seen as additional evidence of his actions being sanctioned by some sort of intelligence, but it could mean other things, too.
It's all just speculation. We also honestly don't know if he was murdered or killed himself; or if he killed himself, if he was permitted or encouraged to do so or if it really was just an ordinary suicide (he'd certainly have strong motive to kill himself). Maybe the base rate of incompetence is so high in that prison that this could happen; maybe 1/3 of the other cameras weren't working then, either, and maybe a lot of guards were slacking off and faking data for years.
Most people seem to jump to the most extreme version of all of these possibilities, but we have almost nothing to go on. Maybe we'll learn the answers someday, but who knows.
Listen to yourself. The end these people seek is to set themselves above the law so they can hollow out the world to line their own pockets, play with the lives of entire nations like pieces on a chessboard, and rape children.
Epstein is very small fry for that organization.
There are evil men in Afghanistan raping boys and there are evil men in Washington defending allowing them to do so.
And why wouldn’t they have had him knocked off sooner?
Then, this very valuable asset (virtually untouchable for some very high-profile people) gets compromised because some nobody accused him of "sexual abuse". There is an investigation, arrest, conviction, yet nothing really leaks, he gets off relatively easy, his masters don't think it is necessary to get rid of him and the whole (pretty public by now, with multiple very famous people low-key-affected) goes on in this messy way for 15 years.
After 15 years he suddenly gets arrested again, this time for good, the whole story gets incredibly public, his bosses suddenly (again, 15 years) realise that he is a liability and decide to get rid of him. He gets killed in a cell by Mossad agents, this is staged as a suicide, which is another "conspiracy theory" for a short while, but in the end we all know that Epstein didn't kill himself. Key evidence disappears and the case is covered on multiple levels, leading up to some very high ranks.
Ok, there are plenty of really really suspicious inconsistencies in that story already, but here's what really baffles me: how come this very well-organized, lead by world-class professionals and covered up by incredibly influential people (both on the "offending" and "blackmailed" sides) operation gets "cleaned up" in a way such that every fucking couch potato in the internet (HN included) sees that this is obviously staged? Mossad cannot silently get rid of people?
I mean, of course everybody (again, HN community members especially included) loves to think they are wa-ay smarter than some Mossad goons and dirty politicians covering this up. But seriously. How can this possibly be so obvious (yet still so mysterious! — we really know nothing in paricluar) unless somebody really wants it to be obvious?
I would be interested in these, any Wikipedia links?
Or does the conspiracy theory have any finer details I'm not getting or is different?
Was it a conspiracy of the agency to listen in on everyone? Or is the conspiracy that the government ('people in the know') conspired to keep it (a secret agency program) secret?
[0] "PRISM is a code name for a program under which the United States National Security Agency (NSA) collects internet communications from various U.S. internet companies." Wikipedia
[1] "The NSA is responsible for global monitoring, collection, and processing of information and data for foreign and domestic intelligence and counterintelligence purposes, specializing in a discipline known as signals intelligence (SIGINT)." Wikipedia
I never met anyone who said it was a conspiracy theory that the intelligence agencies would listen in to everything on the internet and fullfilling their self stated purpose [0]. Even my mother thinks that is their job.
But it seems you have met people that claim the NSA doing it's job is a conspiracy theory.
What would those people say the job and purpose of the NSA is to explain it's existence?
[0] "The National Security Agency/Central Security Service (NSA/CSS) leads the U.S. Government in cryptology that encompasses both signals intelligence (SIGINT) [1] and information assurance (now referred to as cybersecurity) products and services, and enables computer network operations (CNO) in order to gain a decision advantage for the Nation and our allies under all circumstances." https://www.nsa.gov/about/mission-values/
[1] "Signals intelligence (SIGINT) is intelligence-gathering by interception of signals, whether communications between people or from electronic signals not directly used in communication" Wikipedia
(Edited to add "Internet" above.)
> Until Snowden, the idea that Western governments would routinely collect, store, and analyze our personal data sounded like a conspiracy theory to many people.
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/11/the-snowden-lega...
> The revelations were shocking: the scope and depth of the NSA’s collection of private data stopped looking like a conspiracy theory and became a cold, hard reality we all had to face.
https://www.theverge.com/2013/12/30/5224680/the-year-in-revi...
> There was a time when the idea that the U.S. government might spy on your web activity might have seemed like a far-fetched conspiracy theory.
> But that was before Edward Snowden.
https://computer.howstuffworks.com/government-see-website.ht...
No it's not. I can't find any data to this narrative. There were (media) discussions on the government collecting all the data it can in the 70s, and they come up with every census.
There have been huge discussions around ECHOLON. There have been huge discussions about COINTELPRO.
Shocking to whom? I never met anyone who was shocked. Did you? Were YOU shocked by the fact that the NSA was listening in on the internet? Was your mom shocked that the government listened in on the internet? Who are those "many people"? Is there a poll or any substantial data? I really would like to hear from someone who thinks that it was a conspiracy theory that the NSA was listening in on the internet and then was shocked by the Snowden revelations.
I've read all three articles and none has any data or facts about the "many people" or any sources. What are many people? Where does this come from?
The parent comment claims:
"considered a baseless conspiracy theory before the Snowden leaks."
Considered by whom?
EDIT: Ok, thanks telling me you were shocked that the NSA was listening in on the internet. I would not have thought that someone on HN was shocked, especially after ECHOLON - I stand corrected.
Yes, I was shocked by the PRISM disclosures in 2013. Feel free to contact the authors of these articles if you want to argue with them, since they agree.
Edit: You apparently disliked my replies enough to downvote all of my recent comments on other threads.
My comments though have tanked Karma.
I know people were "absolutely sure" before PRISM leaked, but it was a revelation to many.
[0] US government knows no limits [1] US government does domestic espionage [2] US governemnt listens in on everything
How would the Phoenix Program also be a conspiracy theory?
Where is the difference between a secret government agency program and a conspiracy?
It's classic spycraft: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_hangout
> while still managing to withhold the key and damaging facts in the case
So, what's the key? Clearly not what we are currently made to believe.
just ask
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghislaine_Maxwell
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Maxwell
Epstein/handlers have dirt on the media and were able to suppress THE story. Look at the ABC hot mic incident. Who knows how many media organizations are effectively controlled.
The controlled media still exerts a powerful influence over perception and narrative, but it is gradually being eroded by alternative sources and information flows.
Becoming a billionaire with a private island that way, though - that's new.
Jesus wept. Is this it? That's the level of scrutiny?
"As a bank regulator, I’d be outraged to learn that an applicant had misled me in that way."
And laughed out loud. I feel insulted just reading that.
The difficulty of that exercise is supposed to be directly proportional to the AML/KYC reputation of the jurisdiction granting the charter.
Exceptions abound, of course, and possession of incriminating video of a bank executive might make it a lot easier.
Per interviews with the victims he video recorded EVERYTHING at his properties. Pinhole cameras, CCTVs in bedrooms/showers etc you name it.
Chances are in order to protect himself - he had blackmail material on people we all know. If acts described by the victims were secretly taped then those people are royally (pun intended) screwed.
Now the real question is - who in the world is capable to pull off an escape from a prison / suicide / body double swap?
“I was told Epstein ‘belonged to intelligence’ and to leave it alone.”-Alexander Acosta, the former U.S. attorney in Miami.
So the answer is - CIA.
Epstein's buddy Bill Clinton has a "dirty" drug / CIA connection from his Mena / Arkansas days going back to the 80's (it was widely publicized, refer to the book " Crossfire: Witness in the Clinton Investigation").
CIA is the only organization capable to get Epstein out and safe / get him new identity and help disappear.
The truth? We will never know.
This is something I had not read before. Thanks for bringing it up.