But i somewhat imagine for at least pay per click ads the audience is separate from people with ad blockers, because when was the last time you ever intentionally clicked on a banner ad?
But i somewhat imagine for at least pay per click ads the audience is separate from people with ad blockers, because when was the last time you ever intentionally clicked on a banner ad?
For quite a while I've been very conscious about paying for things I like, things I think are good in the world. Subscriptions for sure. Patreon to support individuals. And I just signed up for Scroll, which sends money every month to the sites I browse: https://scroll.com/
If ads die (which I'm 100% in favor of), then people will figure out how to support the things they really like and care about. And the rest will die off.
Is there a list of sites they support available somewhere, so that I can see if it's useful to me?
Don't personally read any of these, but still seems like a promising idea.
if you think the future is asking people from Rwanda to pay 5 bucks a month to read a single online newspaper, or get access to Reddit then I guess you're in for a rude awakening.
"In a world without ads, people will just pay their own way" is elitist thinking. Most people online have nothing of value to exchange except their attention.
2) If said people can't afford 5$/month how will they afford the stuff ads are targeting them to buy?
Then again, neither wikipedia nor <s>youtubr</s>hacker news have ads and that's like half of what i read on the internet right there.
Edit: this is what happens when i try to post while falling asleep. Meant to say hn not youtube. Youtube definitely has ads
Don't know which YouTube you use, but the one I do does have ads.
It's also important to remember that the vast majority of journalists and would-be journalists currently can't afford to do journalism. We need to solve both the consumer and producer problems.
Further, the attention of a perfectly broke version has a value of zero. Since advertisers are still paying for it, you could argue those hypothetical people are harming a website by viewing it: they bring the yield of ads down, encouraging advertisers to only support things for rich people.
Tragedy of the commons. The marginal cost to render another page is zero, but if 100% of pages pay nothing, the server is run at a loss. As a result, only pages that can get "stuck in" alongside revenue-positive content (or pages on a whole server operating at a loss with revenue generated via some other source) can survive (i.e. a patronage model).
> Further, the attention of a perfectly broke [person] has a value of zero
In addition to direct encouragement for consumers to buy something (what is called "conversion"), advertising is also used to shape public perception and garner general interest. Coke doesn't consider an ad vended to a broke person to have zero value, because their product becomes the thing that person will ask for if someone offers them a free beverage of their choice, and it becomes the thing they'll generally recognize as "a soda" over alternatives when the topic comes up at all. The Ad Council's products are generally not about getting a broke person to spend money, but to shape their behavior ("this is your brain on drugs," "#DanceLikeaDad," etc.).
Possibly, but not necessarily. The tragedy of the commons applies when there's a non-zero marginal cost. But with zero marginal cost, you have have to find some way to cover your expenses, and then you can give away the rest as a public good. E.g., the NYT can happily give away a ton of pageviews to non-subscribers as long as they keep their subscriber base up. Public radio, another medium with zero marginal cost, has been giving away their content for decades.
> Coke doesn't consider an ad vended to a broke person to have zero value
[citation needed]
I highly doubt Coke thinks that way. There is approximately nobody who sees their ads that is so permanently destitute that they will never have the opportunity to buy a soda. Indeed, at least in the US, the poor are better customers than the well off. About 2/3rds of people below $30k in income drink soda, while only about half of people over $75k do. https://news.gallup.com/poll/163997/regular-soda-popular-you...
> The tragedy of the commons applies when there's a non-zero marginal cost. But with zero marginal cost, you have have to find some way to cover your expenses, and then you can give away the rest as a public good
So a web page isn't zero marginal cost, it's nearly-zero. Servers require occasional maintenance and continuously consume electricity (to say nothing of the rent / peering arrangement that is usually part of gaining access to someone else's network). Even though a server can host a million individual pages at near-zero marginal cost for each, the original point still stands that if nobody is paying for that server and nobody finds "some way to cover your expenses," the electricity will stop flowing or it will break down and nobody will repair it. So everyone hosting on that server is doing so at the mercy and pleasure of the org or individual paying for the server's continued existence (i.e. a patronage arrangement). Your specific examples (NYT giving some content away and public broadcasting giving all of it away) are examples of patronage models in action (NYT non-subscribers are patrons of NYT, and public broadcasting itself is a patron of its sponsor base).
> [citation needed]
I believe you gave a fair explanation of why Coke doesn't consider an ad vended to a broke person to have zero value immediately after that request for citation, so I will cite your logic. In addition to your observations, the points about brand stickiness (that "when someone offers you a soda, they want you to ask for Coke" bit) and behavior shaping still apply (source: I worked in advertising, this is common knowledge in the industry, but if you want concrete sources I can hit the Google and try to dig up a primer on the industry philosophy; it's so bedrock-knowledge that I can't remember precisely where I learned it). But you're right; even absent those effects, Coke assumes that people who are broke right this moment aren't broke tomorrow and still want you thinking about buying their beverage. "Coke doesn't consider an ad vended to a broke person to have zero value."
As to marginal cost, I don't think you quite understand the term. Web servers are fixed costs. Hardware, setting up pages, electricity: all of that is considered a fixed cost. The marginal cost is the additional cost of producing one more unit of product. In this case, the actual cost difference between serving page 1,000,000 and 1,000,001. So, say 0.0007¢ in bandwidth for a modern, too-heavy page. Too cheap to meter.
It's true that the fixed costs have to get paid for, but there are plenty of ways to do that. And once that's covered, there is no tragedy of the commons. As long as the NYT has enough subscribers to pay their fixed costs and produce a reasonable ROI for their investors, they're golden.
It's a tragedy of the commons if 100% of those pages think someone else is going to foot the bill and one day the system that is actually footing the bill for those pages changes.
Except that it's completely utterly wrong to milk broke people like that.
Oh it happens, but advertising trying to influence you to have thoughts that you would otherwise not have, is actually something that most people disapprove of.
It's not really a good argument to say "just because you don't have money to buy our stuff, doesn't mean we can't control your brain in other ways".
THINK for one moment: If you have nothing to give, or nothing you WANT to give, what on EARTH gives them the right to take something else from you anyway?!!?!
... where you'll only be advertised at to READ and told about local community events. "Advertising" is really just the structural term for "People communicating things at each other." It's pretty inimical to human interaction in any common human space since we developed the capacity to communicate, and it's pretty unavoidable. We have some laws constraining the sorts of things we can advertise at each other, but advertising itself is extremely core to the experience of living in a human society.
I'm not sure where one draws the line between a Coke ad and a blacksmith's shingle, or between brand-recognition ads and towns putting up hisotrical markers indicating why the town is special. It's all on a common spectrum of information exchange.
Doesn't matter. What matters is everybody else is not given any choice about it.
A general solution for that where people could avoid ads by direct-paying publishers would be nice to have. As it stands, we're left with not-so-great options for the consumer where we either just deal with the annoyance of ads, choose to consume advertising-free content at a premium (that differs from the ad-supported content), or try to cheat the system by getting ad-supported content without ads.
That implies it was even needed. It wasn't the same people either, the online ad industry is a bunch of greedy fucks with dollars in their eyes, they came to the web like a swarm of locusts.
Remember the many ~ home - sites?