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Comment by nradov | Hacker News Reader

As an amateur runner and triathlete I really hope someone will integrate this technology into suitable smart sunglasses. I would pay $1000 today for such a product if it actually works. My GPS fitness tracker is a great tool but I hate having to constantly glance down at my wrist to check pace, distance, and heart rate. This is particularly annoying when executing a structured intervals workout based on specific target metrics.

There are existing heads-up display products targeted at cyclists such as the Everysight Raptor and Garmin Varia Vision. However they aren't practical or comfortable for runners.

Ideally I'd like the smart glasses to have the following features: ANT+ Extended Display profile. 6 hour battery life. Lightweight with even weight distribution (not all on one side). Prescription lens compatible.

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I don't trust any of the major tech companies to do a good job with this product. How long until your weather app needs access to that always on camera in your glasses?

Practically I also can't imagine how they'll solve weight/battery/networking issues with the device particularly in athletic settings where you're literally putting the device through a constant earthquake.

Maybe we should stop wishing for some ridiculous convenience layer to be added to our lives and just look around during our runs like we've done for thousands of years.

Or (and this is controversial), design a convenience layer around some other sensory input that doesn’t require vision or alienates people with visual disabilities.

Why not both? Except, there are already solutions that work quite well for audio. Google Glass even used bone-conduction speakers IIRC.

Don't worry about it. None of the major tech companies understand the endurance sports market and it's too small of a niche to even interest them.

All it need to do is define an interface and the sports watch/app companies will do it themselves. Google doesn't need to understand every usecase and make an app for it they made Android Wear and anyone can make an appropriate app.

Having an app doesn't help if the hardware sucks. Android Wear has been a failure in the sports market so far due to short battery life, awkward touch interface, and limited sensor support.

Agreed, I am also an experienced runner and this would be wonderful. Assuming it can get GPS and map trails, trail running would be vastly improved by this. Right now people have to paint trees every 20 feet or so to mark the trail, but if you have a live HUD it can tell you if you're on or off course fairly quickly.

Trouble is GPS isn't always reliable in heavily wooded areas, so there might need to be improvements in GPS before that is really viable.

I would actually prefer to not have any GNSS (GPS) receiver in the smart glasses in order to keep the weight down and battery life up. GNSS receiver can still be in a wrist device and just use the smart glasses as a display linked via ANT+.

GNSS accuracy is poor in forests, canyons, and dense urban environments due to line-of-sight obstructions and multipath reflections. The latest Navstar Block III satellites should improve that a little, but any real solution would require deploying additional satellites in geosynchronous orbit like the Japanese QZSS.

> GNSS accuracy is poor in forests, canyons, and dense urban environments

I feel like this should be solvable on the software side, especially for medium or long distance runs. If I look at the traces, I can see that the recorded zig-zag is obviously wrong, and a bit of smoothing should be able to fix it.

Are there any running apps that are accurate?

Most fitness trackers do apply some level of automatic track smoothing but it's not a solution. Sometimes athletes really do zig-zag around, especially on trail runs in rough terrain. The Apple Watch is sometimes overly aggressive about track smoothing which leads to funny results showing the athlete running through solid obstacles.

Accelerometer, magnetometer, and gyroscope sensor data can help a little to sanity check GNSS inputs and fill in brief gaps. But those tiny sensors have terrible drift which makes them nearly useless for sustained position tracking.

I run in New York City using a Garmin (Forerunner 935 but the model doesn't really matter). GPS accuracy is terrible in midtown due to the signal bouncing off the buildings. Sometimes it records that I've run a two minute mile. At a minimum you'd think they'd have software that can detect that it's unlikely I'm setting a world record (or scaling the side of a building).

This frustrated me enough that I eventually got a Stryd footpod. The pace/distance tracking is extremely accurate and I use it to override what the watch records. So the GPS track still bounces all over the place but the recorded pace/distance data is correct.

> any real solution would require deploying additional satellites in geosynchronous orbit like the Japanese QZSS.

There's nothing about geosync orbit that would help with the tree/canyon effect. Satellites directly overhead contribute the least to horizontal positioning - essentially only helping to establish the "true" clock value but not 2D position.

Multi-constellation tracking can be helpful, simply because there are more satellites to use.

None of that is relevant to how QZSS actually augments GPS accuracy. Real world tests show that it works better than just using more constellations in lower orbits.

https://www.ion.org/publications/abstract.cfm?articleID=9679

I used to be an ultradistance runner and also built and sold an AR/Computer Vision company.

Unfortunately the state of localization isn't ready for passive (aka non-radiative) reliable sub meter localization over anything more than a few meters squared in a well lit indoor space.

Going to be a while likely before we get to "wear everyday" AR glasses with sub meter accurate camera position/localization.

I would maybe buy smart glasses for $1000 if and only if the protocol to interface with them was documented. First because it’s unlikely they’ll support the platforms I like to use, and second because enough of these products have come and gone that I don’t trust they’ll be officially supported for more than two years or so.

The ANT+ Extended Display profile is documented. https://www.thisisant.com/developer

Wouldn't this be a total shoe-in for an audio-based interface? Probably I don't quite understand your requirements - I'm imagining you want alerts for when you're within your pace/heartrate targets, and for when you reach specific distance targets or intervals.

Audio alerts don't work very well in practice. My fitness tracker can be configured to play alert tones when I reach my target zone or when various metrics are too high or low, but when I try to rely on those alerts I tend to over correct and bounce off the limits. Plus sometimes the environment is just too noisy and I can't distinguish between different alerts. That makes for a frustrating low-quality workout. Having the actual numbers constantly in the corner of my eye would make the process much smoother and easier.

Also I hate to be "that guy" whose stupid wristwatch is constantly beeping during group workouts and races.

I was thinking you'd use headphones. As for overcorrecting, I see what you mean, but I think there's probably a way to have the signals you want with just audio, and therefore, with today's tech. I've tried Jabra's fitness tracker and it's way too wordy, but I think that's a case of poor implementation.

Nope. Triathlon rules specifically ban all types of headphones. Train like you race.

Ah, well, that's that then. But how long would AR glasses be allowed?

No one is seriously proposing use of AR glasses for endurance sports because obviously anything that significantly interferes with vision is a safety problem. But a simple HUD is fine. Cyclists have been using them for a few years now and no one is calling for a ban.

*shoo-in (sorry)

Thanks! As a non-native speaker, I don't make spelling g mistakes like that very often, but I guess that's a rare instance of having learned a word from spoken language rather than written!

There is a company that makes swim goggles for $200 that does pace and heart rate, though that's only one of the disciplines.

https://www.formswim.com/

(I am in no way affiliated with this company)

I use Peloton Digital/Freeletics type apps where they tell you how to work out properly and build workout regimes for you but...on the phone.

I'd love to have it overlayed over the corner of my eye while I'm working out.

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